Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Moderator: CL GMs

Should sunstone prices be restored to the previous levels?

Yes
21
62%
No
4
12%
Maybe
0
No votes
Let's give this some more time
6
18%
Let's reduce the price some, but not back to the previous level
3
9%
 
Total votes: 34

User avatar
Fogtripper
Noble
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:41 am
Profession: Walker of Ether
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Spambot
Location: a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Fogtripper » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:44 pm

There are 2 "new" players I have been observing over the past few days.

The first has a club. She's been bashing away at rats in the towers. Making progress, asking questions, getting advice and guidance. She seem to be genuinely enjoying the game. I gave her a raw SS and let her know to speak with a FM when she sees one and they'd put her on the path to a full SS. She understood it would be expensive, yet appeared willing to work toward it.

The second (Arindal transplant) was given a SS, clothing, berries and coin to dye the clothing, then to change it into a shirt. They were given a rapier. This player has spent the bulk of his time in town center asking for handouts. They have this much "wealth" yet did not know (until I showed him) the first thing about how to get coins for himself. He wanted to be able to hit ferals, yet had not stepped foot into the south forest, much less know what kind of critters were in that direction of TC. Even after showing him how to train with skea, and telling him how he could begin accumulating coins in the south he spent most of his time simply sitting in town wondering where the next handout would come from. He stated that he's waiting to jump into Cammies mid-level hunt.

These are two extremes, but are both true ongoing examples in-game.
Talin wrote:Most noobs I meet are not beggars, and leechers.
Agreed, however there is no reason to foster such.

Talin
Noble
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:13 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Talin » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:51 pm

Fogtripper wrote:There are 2 "new" players I have been observing over the past few days.

The first has a club. She's been bashing away at rats in the towers. Making progress, asking questions, getting advice and guidance. She seem to be genuinely enjoying the game. I gave her a raw SS and let her know to speak with a FM when she sees one and they'd put her on the path to a full SS. She understood it would be expensive, yet appeared willing to work toward it.

The second (Arindal transplant) was given a SS, clothing, berries and coin to dye the clothing, then to change it into a shirt. They were given a rapier. This player has spent the bulk of his time in town center asking for handouts. They have this much "wealth" yet did not know (until I showed him) the first thing about how to get coins for himself. He wanted to be able to hit ferals, yet had not stepped foot into the south forest, much less know what kind of critters were in that direction of TC. Even after showing him how to train with skea, and telling him how he could begin accumulating coins in the south he spent most of his time simply sitting in town wondering where the next handout would come from. He stated that he's waiting to jump into Cammies mid-level hunt.

These are two extremes, but are both true ongoing examples in-game.
An Arindal transplant is not a newbie. He knows exactly how to get to coins, how to get into hunts, how to hunt, whom to share, the fighter dance, etc. I know who you are talking about, he got stuff lent and is currently working his ass off to pay debts back.

User avatar
Fogtripper
Noble
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:41 am
Profession: Walker of Ether
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Spambot
Location: a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Fogtripper » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:21 pm

Talin wrote:An Arindal transplant is not a newbie. He knows exactly how to get to coins, how to get into hunts, how to hunt, whom to share, the fighter dance, etc. I know who you are talking about, he got stuff lent and is currently working his ass off to pay debts back.
With all due respect, we must be thinking of two different exiles.

User avatar
Cinnamon
Sun Dragon Clan
Sun Dragon Clan
Posts: 6375
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:06 am

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Cinnamon » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:05 pm

I don't understand what Fogtripper's trying to say. Because of alts sunstone prices should remain high?
This sig pic removed by Vagile

User avatar
Fogtripper
Noble
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:41 am
Profession: Walker of Ether
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Spambot
Location: a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Fogtripper » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:16 pm

Cinnamon wrote:I don't understand what Fogtripper's trying to say. Because of alts sunstone prices should remain high?
No, I am simply saying that things are worth more to those who work to attain them, rather than having been given them. In addition, being given things for little effort simply teaches dependence. In hindsight, it would probably be a better discussion in the "give everyone sunpebbles" discussion. I am talking about new folks, not alts.

User avatar
Cinnamon
Sun Dragon Clan
Sun Dragon Clan
Posts: 6375
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:06 am

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Cinnamon » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:19 pm

k thanks

beyond that it's all about where you draw the line. How many game hours should it take a true noob hunting with rank peers to get a sunstone?
This sig pic removed by Vagile

User avatar
Fogtripper
Noble
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:41 am
Profession: Walker of Ether
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Spambot
Location: a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Fogtripper » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:25 pm

Cinnamon wrote:k thanks

beyond that it's all about where you draw the line. How many game hours should it take a true noob hunting with rank peers to get a sunstone?
I would answer that with a question:
How far from TC would one have to be that would necessitate having a SS? How long would one have to clan to be confident surviving somewhere like that?

I'd perhaps think the forests north, east and south of Puddleby. That said, those areas are where exiles would start accumulating good coins. So I would then ask "how long would one have to spend (reasonably) in NF, EF or SF to earn a SS?" (note: not a pebble, but a full SS)

If in a group (or solo if confident enough), 500c would not be such a huge amount, and would easily be attainable within a few days at most.

User avatar
Cinnamon
Sun Dragon Clan
Sun Dragon Clan
Posts: 6375
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:06 am

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Cinnamon » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:46 pm

Fogtripper wrote:
Cinnamon wrote:k thanks

beyond that it's all about where you draw the line. How many game hours should it take a true noob hunting with rank peers to get a sunstone?
I would answer that with a question:
How far from TC would one have to be that would necessitate having a SS? How long would one have to clan to be confident surviving somewhere like that?
As a game tool the same use can be applied in TC or in Tepui. I receive the majority of my SS messages from one snell away. Were you are in the lands has no bearing on the need for a sunstone. Distance from your target neither.
This sig pic removed by Vagile

User avatar
Torin
Order of the White Elephant
Order of the White Elephant
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:36 am
Profession: Champion
Race: Dwarf
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Torin » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:56 pm

Fogtripper wrote:If in a group (or solo if confident enough), 500c would not be such a huge amount, and would easily be attainable within a few days at most.
Do you think a FOTB group can make 500c per person in a few days without someone out of their league doing the heavy lifting? Not in my experience. I guess that it would take several weeks.

User avatar
Fogtripper
Noble
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:41 am
Profession: Walker of Ether
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Spambot
Location: a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Fogtripper » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:02 pm

Torin wrote:
Fogtripper wrote:If in a group (or solo if confident enough), 500c would not be such a huge amount, and would easily be attainable within a few days at most.
Do you think a FOTB group can make 500c per person in a few days without someone out of their league doing the heavy lifting? Not in my experience. I guess that it would take several weeks.

No, I do not expect a FOTB to get SS cash in a few days. But you did an incredible job cherry-picking my post Torin.

Talin
Noble
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:13 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Talin » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:19 am

Fogtripper wrote:
Talin wrote:Most noobs I meet are not beggars, and leechers.
Agreed, however there is no reason to foster such.
I will also cherry pick. In my language that is called quoting though ;)

I agree that people should have to work to achieve goals. You do not not foster begging by making the prices exorbitant. You actually achieve quite the opposite. If people get the feeling that they cannot reach a goal in a reasonable time, they will not try to achieve it. We will differ in what we consider a reasonable time. Just think about one thing:

About 95% of all hunts are organized via SS. With stating how long a FOTB should have to wait until he/she can acquire a SS you also state how long they should not be able to organize hunts, for about 95% of the time. The other 5% find each other in tc, or in the wild. It is not so different for FOTB in my experience. Since a "good noob" will want to achieve things, he/she will be in one of the rat towers. To get even 500c FOTBs hunting with each other will need weeks, at least. Mind you, the SS price is a tad higher than 500c at the moment ;) So in a nutshell you say, FOTB should not organize hunts for the first months. That is not the way to keep people interested, even with your best intentions (which I do not doubt, btw)

User avatar
noivad
Order of the White Elephant
Order of the White Elephant
Posts: 3332
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:04 pm
Profession: Fighter
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Location: SF Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by noivad » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:35 am

SSes were over 2000c when I got mine a week and a half or two after the ripture war. That was pre-skea though. A newbie could take at least a few days to get an SS at 500c,that's after they find out about Skea though and graduate from rat towers. If they're much over 2K I agree with Talin that it doesn't foster the drive to accomplish that on your own.
http://www.clanlord.net/
Org Du Lac's bestiary: http://bestiary.clanlord.net/index.html
Gil Galad’s Pirates http://pirates.clanlord.net/ & Ranger Studies: http://studies.clanlord.net/
?security warning:View cert•CL players assess valid by refs

User avatar
Raul
Noble
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:05 am
Contact:

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Raul » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:48 am

has this bug been fixed yet?

User avatar
Fogtripper
Noble
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:41 am
Profession: Walker of Ether
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Spambot
Location: a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Fogtripper » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:41 pm

Talin wrote:
Fogtripper wrote:
Talin wrote:Most noobs I meet are not beggars, and leechers.
Agreed, however there is no reason to foster such.
I will also cherry pick. In my language that is called quoting though ;)

I agree that people should have to work to achieve goals. You do not not foster begging by making the prices exorbitant. You actually achieve quite the opposite. If people get the feeling that they cannot reach a goal in a reasonable time, they will not try to achieve it. We will differ in what we consider a reasonable time. Just think about one thing:

About 95% of all hunts are organized via SS. With stating how long a FOTB should have to wait until he/she can acquire a SS you also state how long they should not be able to organize hunts, for about 95% of the time. The other 5% find each other in tc, or in the wild. It is not so different for FOTB in my experience. Since a "good noob" will want to achieve things, he/she will be in one of the rat towers. To get even 500c FOTBs hunting with each other will need weeks, at least. Mind you, the SS price is a tad higher than 500c at the moment ;) So in a nutshell you say, FOTB should not organize hunts for the first months. That is not the way to keep people interested, even with your best intentions (which I do not doubt, btw)
It was cherrypicking by Torin, taking a single line out of my whole thought. Cin asked
"How many game hours should it take a true noob hunting with rank peers to get a sunstone?"
I responded with the whole post above, not simply the line that Torin yanked. I stated my reasoning and concluded with a price-tag of around 500c (which is actually a lot less than many of us paid for our stones back in the day).

Paying 500+ for a sunstone is nothing new. It didn't just start to happen recently. Yes, current prices are obscene, but the answer should not be handing them out like candy. On a related note, the new exile I gave the raw SS to, that had been working their butt off was given the 2k for a stone this afternoon. I guess time will tell whether that will motivate them or otherwise.

User avatar
Lorikeet
Pogue Mahone
Pogue Mahone
Posts: 3709
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:58 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Restore sunstone prices to previous level

Post by Lorikeet » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:22 pm

Mea Culpa. I did it. The new exile was at a chat in the fairgrounds explaining about having come from Arindal land, and about being afraid of missing hunts due to a lack of a sunstone, and asking whether or not the price would be lowered soon. A mystic present said he'd sell one for 2k. Made sense to me. So sue me.

Post Reply