A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Moderator: CL GMs

Should there be a way to lock in your blade ranks?

No, waste of time.
1
3%
No, bad design change.
2
7%
Yes, high priority.
11
37%
Yes, low priority.
15
50%
No, but the drain should be removed altogether (those who train will have those ranks forever) with fair warning.
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

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Fogtripper
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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Fogtripper » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:32 am

Kerrah wrote:
Fogtripper wrote:Would this allow a champion to have awesome detha while training (what some call a tad overpowered) bloodblade for the best of both worlds?

Or would a subclass skill only be useable while weilding that subclasses blade?
Detha training has absolutely zero bonus effect on bloodbladers. One only needs to look at Naferu for proof of that. He has a Detha ledger along with a bunch of bloodblade, and still falls as quickly as most other bloodbladers.
Is the detha-esque stuff champions get akin to raw detha, or is it different?
Would BB training cancel out the champion defense skills?

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Skirwan » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:33 am

I'm not sure how much of the mechanics is still classified as secret, but in general terms if you've got enough bloodblade ranks much if not all of your defense goes away when you swing. At full balance your defense is roughly equivalent to your defense when you're not blading. Of course when you're at low enough health the value of defense in general diminishes, because no amount of defense can offset luck hits.

Moderate away if you feel the need, but I don't think I'm saying anything that a reasonably observant person wouldn't figure out alone.
“However,” said Dumbledore, speaking very slowly and clearly so that none of them could miss a word, “you will find that I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me.”

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Kerrah » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:33 am

Skirwan wrote:I'm not sure how much of the mechanics is still classified as secret, but in general terms if you've got enough bloodblade ranks much if not all of your defense goes away when you swing. At full balance your defense is roughly equivalent to your defense when you're not blading. Of course when you're at low enough health the value of defense in general diminishes, because no amount of defense can offset luck hits.

Moderate away if you feel the need, but I don't think I'm saying anything that a reasonably observant person wouldn't figure out alone.
Yes, because the nature of the bloodblade is that in order to be able to swing with the massive amounts of Atkus and Darkus, it allows the blader to delve into their base Balthus, so when they're blading they're actually operating on negative Balthus in some cases, thereby drastically diminishing their defense.

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Skirwan » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:12 pm

Kerrah wrote:
Skirwan wrote:I'm not sure how much of the mechanics is still classified as secret, but in general terms if you've got enough bloodblade ranks much if not all of your defense goes away when you swing. At full balance your defense is roughly equivalent to your defense when you're not blading. Of course when you're at low enough health the value of defense in general diminishes, because no amount of defense can offset luck hits.

Moderate away if you feel the need, but I don't think I'm saying anything that a reasonably observant person wouldn't figure out alone.
Yes, because the nature of the bloodblade is that in order to be able to swing with the massive amounts of Atkus and Darkus, it allows the blader to delve into their base Balthus, so when they're blading they're actually operating on negative Balthus in some cases, thereby drastically diminishing their defense.
Um... no. Don't think so, at least.

I'm not going to risk a smiting by saying anything more specific about mechanics, but feel free to PM me if you care.
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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Sephiroth » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:09 pm

Daimoth wrote:Any GM going to say anything about this? I find it pretty silly that the main thing keeping me from training a little gossamer is the obnoxious decay messages.
Could we please get a GM comment on whether this is possible?

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by xepel » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:23 pm

Skirwan wrote:
Kerrah wrote:Yes, because the nature of the bloodblade is that in order to be able to swing with the massive amounts of Atkus and Darkus, it allows the blader to delve into their base Balthus, so when they're blading they're actually operating on negative Balthus in some cases, thereby drastically diminishing their defense.
Um... no. Don't think so, at least.

I'm not going to risk a smiting by saying anything more specific about mechanics, but feel free to PM me if you care.
It may not work exactly like that, but the end result is similar enough that it's a good "layman's" explanation.
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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Kerrah » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:52 pm

xepel wrote:
Skirwan wrote:
Kerrah wrote:Yes, because the nature of the bloodblade is that in order to be able to swing with the massive amounts of Atkus and Darkus, it allows the blader to delve into their base Balthus, so when they're blading they're actually operating on negative Balthus in some cases, thereby drastically diminishing their defense.
Um... no. Don't think so, at least.

I'm not going to risk a smiting by saying anything more specific about mechanics, but feel free to PM me if you care.
It may not work exactly like that, but the end result is similar enough that it's a good "layman's" explanation.
Oh shit, Xepel is saying that I said something kinda, sorta right. What's happening to the world?!?!?!

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Crunch » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:55 pm

Xel wrote:Putting my agreement in as well. This no longer bugs me, seeing as all but one of the special-bladed characters I click have subclassed, but I recall this annoying me to no end in the past.
Looks like this can even frustrate mystics, who normally enjoy boredom and frustration, when they play their alts.

I see that, as I write this, 3 people have voted against this (1 waste of time and 2 bad ideas). Anyone care to say why? Maybe there's some downside that I'm not thinking of. I doubt it should be difficult to do. Even if it is, as I have said in the past, I'll offer my help in getting it done.

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Gorvin » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:26 pm

Fogtripper wrote: Is the detha-esque stuff champions get akin to raw detha, or is it different?
Would BB training cancel out the champion defense skills?
The only Detha-esque thing Champions have that could really be considered better than what vanilla fighters have access to is a combo trainer (Erthron) that is essentially Evus except more focused on Detha and less on other skills. He used to give a very large bonus, but was later nerfed down to give about as much bonus as Evus does. And, while not really "Detha-esque", Champions don't suffer a movement speed penalty while wearing armor, which comes in handy defensively. But really, a Champion BBer is not going to be able to do much that a normal BBer can't (probably less, since the BB is in its best form when you spend so many of your ranks on it that you have little to spend on anything else), even ignoring the fact that Detha doesn't help a BBer much anyway.

And there's nothing stopping Champions from training the BB now if they want (or any subclass training any specialty weapon), it's just an annoyance to have to switch between trainers constantly because of the rank decay. Seeing as how it's just an *annoyance* and not something that's keeping balance in the game, there should be a way to turn off the rank decay.

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by xepel » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:54 pm

Thanks GMs!

A simple change that not even Cinnamon can complain about!

(Close now, or I guess we can wait until it's finished being totally tested in-game?)
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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Daimoth » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:04 pm

I am still celebrating. Give it a couple more days.
Extreme level disparity is community disparity.

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Measle » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:09 pm

If this is relatively bug free, off to the closed suggestions area with this thread.
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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Crunch » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:00 pm

Thanks, Slarty!

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Re: A way to stop special blade rank drain without subclassing

Post by Cinnamon » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:02 am

Thanks Slarty
xepel wrote: A simple change that not even Cinnamon can complain about!
Thanks Slarty
I understand there's a bug in it when you just type /use or /use ?. How many ways has /use been overloaded? Maybe 10?
/use, /use /reflect, /use /study, /use /practice, /use ?, /use <name> How about trying them all?
So much for testing.
:twisted:
Thanks Slarty
Yes thanks Slarty. This is one that's long overdue. Much appreciated.
Thanks Slarty
Fwiw, if you toss good stuff done by GMs into closed suggestions within hours of the awesomeness being announced you can hardly complain that GMs don't get recognition for it. Leave it up for a while. Let the GM bask in player appreciation for a while. Have a parade.
Thanks Slarty
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