7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

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Do we need more fighter tests?

Yes, of course. Only a pussy would think otherwise.
34
81%
No, I suck at taking tests so they make my epeen feel small.
8
19%
 
Total votes: 42

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Post by Lorikeet » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:23 am

Phroon wrote:
Michael wrote:Because they arnt "easy to dodge" in the small fighter test circle with all that shit on you.
Have you seen the 6th• healer test? Are they "easy to dodge"?
Sixth circle healer test:

1. Walk up to Glory.
2. Glory falls.
3. Start healing Glory.
4. Get hit by an ice maha, a polar bear, another maha, soon to be joined by some lovely feraling snow ferals.
5. Fall.
6. Make some muttered comment about never healing a fallen in the middle of garbage like that.

(Yes, I know the test is for Higgy/Faustus. No, I'm not changing my training regimen to pass a test. No, I only take the test when I'm ready for a good laugh. Yes, I'll put my character's training up with anyone else's for survivability of a party.)

Sorry about the hijack.

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Post by Phroon » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:30 am

Lorikeet wrote:5. Fall.
Clearly we aren't good healers then.

Clearly.

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Post by Michael » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:43 am

Phroon wrote:
Michael wrote:Because they arnt "easy to dodge" in the small fighter test circle with all that shit on you.
Have you seen the 6th• healer test? Are they "easy to dodge"?
I dont recall any rocks when my healer was taking it.

Healer tests are about surviving damage, fighter tests are about avoiding it.

Fighter tests involve enough skill as it is, we dont need to complicate that.

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Post by Phroon » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:07 am

Michael wrote:
Phroon wrote:
Michael wrote:Because they arnt "easy to dodge" in the small fighter test circle with all that shit on you.
Have you seen the 6th• healer test? Are they "easy to dodge"?
I dont recall any rocks when my healer was taking it.

Healer tests are about surviving damage, fighter tests are about avoiding it.

Fighter tests involve enough skill as it is, we dont need to complicate that.
There's a sprig in 7th...

My point is that the 6th• and higher healer tests are fairly different from the others, and have their own unique challenges, and the fighter tests should reflect that. Not necessarily with a rock thrower, but perhaps something else unique to increase the difficulty.


The healer tests, for example:

6th has feraling creatures, so you can't dump them anywhere else.

7th has a sprig to zap your balance and make you lay down.

8th is just a lot of damage.

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Post by NB » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:47 pm

Michael wrote:I dont recall any rocks when my healer was taking it.

Healer tests are about surviving damage, fighter tests are about avoiding it.

Fighter tests involve enough skill as it is, we dont need to complicate that.
While I'm with you on the rocks bit, I don't fully agree with the "avoiding damage". IMO its more about "killing all of them before they kill you"
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Post by Michael » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:14 am

NB wrote:
Michael wrote:I dont recall any rocks when my healer was taking it.

Healer tests are about surviving damage, fighter tests are about avoiding it.

Fighter tests involve enough skill as it is, we dont need to complicate that.
While I'm with you on the rocks bit, I don't fully agree with the "avoiding damage". IMO its more about "killing all of them before they kill you"
Well thats not going to happen if everything in the test is able to hit most fighters. Sure a few passed without bricking, but thats the exception not the rule.

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Post by Sala Dragon » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:49 pm

I'm in huge favor of putting in new tests - the sooner (well, as long as they're balanced) the awesomer. Sala passed 6th circle 4 OOC years ago, and I pretty much quit after that... but it'd definitely be great to have something to work towards, even if there's no concrete reward.

Anyway, that said:

I'm against the idea of Stinging Beetles - I think this promotes cookie cutter fighters too much. Kill rate shouldn't be that important. I think the current trend has gone pretty well.

So for 7th,
Malachite Noid (or Olives/Jades?) (High damage / hard to block, but easy to hit)
Redwood Giant (or Ash Giant?) - Hard to hit (325-ish Atkus I think? And more interesting than a Frenzy)
Scarmis Warrior (Need to brick it decently to kill it. Might not be tough enough for 7th? Attendant is too strong though.)
Ember Wyrm (Sort of a mix of Redwood and Scarmis)

For 8th,
Webless Crimson (or 2 Malachites?) (Ups Atkus Requirement to 375-ish)
Ice Abyssal? Maybe one of them. Not really sure how strong they are. Regular AH are a little too weak though.
Scarmis Attendant
Non-explosive Russet Tok'Han? (Stronger than Olive, weaker than Green, need enough defence to brick it)


Anyway, just throwing some ideas out of relatively strong creatures for each test, not saying each should include -all- of the mentioned critters. I think having more than 4 creatures in the test arena as it currently is would be too crowded.

-HWC Sala

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Post by Daimoth » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:57 pm

Sala Dragon wrote:I'm against the idea of Stinging Beetles - I think this promotes cookie cutter fighters too much. Kill rate shouldn't be that important. I think the current trend has gone pretty well.
Funny since most fighters find that the farthest thing form being cookie-cutter. What's cookie cutter is making Atkus/Detha the only thing necessary in passing a test. Adding things like kill-rate and Histia requirements adds different ways to approach the test, other than just Detha/Atkus, and keeps the standard high.

Also, while I like the creatures you used in the test, almost every single sixth circler I know could pass both, easily.

I liked where you were going at first though, with the Malachite/Redwood. But Ember Wyrms and Scarmis Warriors are more on a fifth or sixth level, and certainly below seventh.

Eighth is just flat-out far too easy. Eighth should be a test that even Muj has some trouble passing. Something like, a Crimson Arachnoid (WITH webs), an Ironwood Giant, a Green Tok'han.

Note: Those three creatures have varying speeds, so running them would be quite difficult. Obviously the Crimson would be the highest priority since it's fast, traps you and throws webs. But if it does happen to trap you, the other two would only be too glad to knock you over.

But even that's too easy. Muj, Natas and maybe Gurgi/Gorv could probably still pass on their first try. In which case we'd be needing a ninth and tenth test, soon.

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Post by Fundin » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:10 am

Daimoth wrote:But even that's too easy. Muj, Natas and maybe Gurgi/Gorv could probably still pass on their first try. In which case we'd be needing a ninth and tenth test, soon.
I dont see that as a problem, i dont see much point putting new tests in unless they go to 10 • for the reason you say.

It would be silly, imo, to balance the test for Mujin, balance them for the majority of people. If she passes 7 & 8 first go fine, she worked for it. Id hate to see 7 & 8 so hard and far away id likely never pass just so as to make life hard for one or two people.

Thats solved by putting 9 & 10 in which imo should be very hard, possibly so hard for 10 • you will see Mujin needing another year or more to pass.
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Post by NB » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:34 am

Daimoth wrote:
Sala Dragon wrote:I'm against the idea of Stinging Beetles - I think this promotes cookie cutter fighters too much. Kill rate shouldn't be that important. I think the current trend has gone pretty well.
Funny since most fighters find that the farthest thing form being cookie-cutter. What's cookie cutter is making Atkus/Detha the only thing necessary in passing a test. Adding things like kill-rate and Histia requirements adds different ways to approach the test, other than just Detha/Atkus, and keeps the standard high.

/agree.

Not really sure where you got that idea from Sala, but just about everyone I know who's passed 6th did it more or less cookie cutter Detha/Atkus minimal histia/darkus
Daimoth wrote:Eighth is just flat-out far too easy. Eighth should be a test that even Muj has some trouble passing. Something like, a Crimson Arachnoid (WITH webs), an Ironwood Giant, a Green Tok'han.

But even that's too easy. Muj, Natas and maybe Gurgi/Gorv could probably still pass on their first try. In which case we'd be needing a ninth and tenth test, soon.
I disagree. I don't think the tests should be balanced around Mujin. I'd rather see 7-10 added and have them scale more reasonably. Give folks something to work forward to realistically. Hopefully generate a higher player base at any given time.
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Post by NB » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:07 am

Any GM care to comment on whether or not any of this is being considered, worked on, etc?
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Post by HabbakukLal » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:09 am

I'd definitely have beetles somewhere. And Frenzies, too. Gotta keep some consistency. I don't like critters that have been stripped of an ability (noids with no webs/AMS with no rocks). But with there only being so many high-end critters, might need to do it.

More Histia, definitely. Even though I do have a ledger in Histia, I've always felt that everyone could use some more (makes sense with all the lightning/fire/etc in the game).

Then I'd have about half the 6th circlers pass to 7th fairly early. Then half of those pass 8th. Then about 3-5 pass 9th. And 10th would take even Mujin at least 6months to a year to pass. It'd be more fun (and exciting) if the last test took some time. I think even Mujin would appreciate that.
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Post by Michael » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:22 am

Daimoth wrote: But even that's too easy. Muj, Natas and maybe Gurgi/Gorv could probably still pass on their first try. In which case we'd be needing a ninth and tenth test, soon.
The idea is to take the tests to 10th right now.

Mujin should prolly be 9th. A few others 8th.

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Post by Sala Dragon » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:40 am

Daimoth wrote:
Funny since most fighters find that the farthest thing form being cookie-cutter. What's cookie cutter is making Atkus/Detha the only thing necessary in passing a test. Adding things like kill-rate and Histia requirements adds different ways to approach the test, other than just Detha/Atkus, and keeps the standard high.
I guess it depends on the stinging beetle -- they vary ridiculously, and some of them are nearly impossible to kill even for someone with Sala's killrate (which is pretty quick).

I'd like the idea of a Dredlock / multiple Hemlocks more if there was more room to move around. As it is, with the current arena, it'd be a hassle of "am I going to get trapped this time I take the test or will I be lucky?" when running after the bolter.
Daimoth wrote:
Also, while I like the creatures you used in the test, almost every single sixth circler I know could pass both, easily.

Hmm, maybe put the Attendant in the 7th circle test then. It's been a while, but I seem to remember those being strong and pretty hard to brick.
Daimoth wrote: Eighth is just flat-out far too easy. Eighth should be a test that even Muj has some trouble passing. Something like, a Crimson Arachnoid (WITH webs), an Ironwood Giant, a Green Tok'han.

Note: Those three creatures have varying speeds, so running them would be quite difficult. Obviously the Crimson would be the highest priority since it's fast, traps you and throws webs. But if it does happen to trap you, the other two would only be too glad to knock you over.

But even that's too easy. Muj, Natas and maybe Gurgi/Gorv could probably still pass on their first try. In which case we'd be needing a ninth and tenth test, soon.
I think the idea is to add more tests. I should hope as many people pass 8th quickly as passed the 7th circle healer test. I like your ideas for 8th more than mine. In retrospect, my 8th circle test wasn't much harder than 7th.

I think that an Ironwood would probably be good for 8th. Again, the crimson with webs would be really irritating with the current limited fighting arena we have. Possibly we could have a new arena for taking the later tests (something I'd love, but that's kind of another topic).

-Sala

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Post by Sala Dragon » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:47 pm

Any word on this? Eldon, Small? These would be amazing to have in, and probably wouldn't take too much time to do. It's a fun challenge to have every week that I've been missing for the past (more than) 4 years!

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