7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

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Do we need more fighter tests?

Yes, of course. Only a pussy would think otherwise.
34
81%
No, I suck at taking tests so they make my epeen feel small.
8
19%
 
Total votes: 42

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Michael
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7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Michael » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:42 am

Pretty simple, we need new fighter tests. That parts not a debate.

What is up for discussion is what goes into the tests.

I dont see a need to reinvent the wheel, the current testing system for fighters is a pretty damn good way to find out who sucks and who sucks less.

Ideally I think we should have a few players that would be able to pass 8th right now, or at least be close to it. Many have been 6th for a long time, so 7th should be fairly easy for the top end fighters and 8th definatly shouldnt be more than a few months away.

There really arnt that many critters to choose from, espically for 8th. There are just not that many things that hard that are reasonable for people to solo.

Maybe a good way to go about it is figure out about what the rank requirements should be (espically for atkus and defense) and then pick critters from there. Of course these will be average numbers and there are other ways to train, but it seems the best way to keep things in the current progression curve with the other tests.

How much atkus did 6th require? 300? I think thats about right. So 400 for 7th? 500 for 8th? That sound high?

I remember the defense for 6th coming in at around 1k. Varied by how much was balthus and how much was detha. So 1400 for 7th, 1800 for 8th?

Histia isnt really an issue, since you can always skimp on that and for most fighters its just to absorb luck hits.

Kill rate is harder to define. You could add a high triolus critter and there by require a bare minimum kill rate, or you could go the old road and just make it enough to pass in the time given.

Webs are a bad idea, so fuck that.

If anyone remembers the rank requirements for 4th and 5th, I think that would help see how much the requirements increase for each circle a bit more.

So lets hear ideas.

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Post by HabbakukLal » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:57 am

Just to point out, with all the high-level people ranking so slowly nowadays (and I mean just in general, not from lack of RWing) if you were off just a small amount of ranks in one area, it would take you a lot longer than a few months to compensate.
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Post by Michael » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:17 am

HabbakukLal wrote:Just to point out, with all the high-level people ranking so slowly nowadays (and I mean just in general, not from lack of RWing) if you were off just a small amount of ranks in one area, it would take you a lot longer than a few months to compensate.


Yes, it would. New circle tests will also underscore the need for new rank whoring grounds. Having something to work toward isnt much fun if you cant work toward it.

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Post by Kerrah » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:46 am

Michael wrote:
HabbakukLal wrote:Just to point out, with all the high-level people ranking so slowly nowadays (and I mean just in general, not from lack of RWing) if you were off just a small amount of ranks in one area, it would take you a lot longer than a few months to compensate.


Yes, it would. New circle tests will also underscore the need for new rank whoring grounds. Having something to work toward isnt much fun if you cant work toward it.


I'm almost wondering if there should just be a KI2, much as there is an Abyss 2. Maybe where the weakest lyfe is a flower or something. It seems like most of the newer rankwhoring lands the GMs are coming up with aren't working, through webs (Deathtrap Noids), difficulty to get to (PC), or a glacially slow kill-rate that makes the work in getting there pointless for the lack of rewards involved (Peaceton, EW cave).

Now I know there's Sarra, and while I haven't been there myself, from what I've heard about the place from other people it seems like there needs to be a place in between that allows people to get strong enough to go to Sarra without it being suicide.

What would GMs think about creating KI2, or for that matter what would Michael, NB, etc. think about that idea? Maybe the strongest lyfe there could be like a toned-down Rowl that doesn't lyfe you instantly, which completely sucked.

The more I've been playing the more I realize that once you've done Kizmia on a regular basis, nothing else compares.

Edit: So I'm not walking all over Michael's suggestion here, which is for more fighter tests, I'm going to move this to a new poll.

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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by NB » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:38 am

New tests are a phenomenal idea, I do think tho that your approach is a bit flawed. IMO I think that 7-10 should be added, and scaled better than what you have suggested.

Think about the rank jumps from test to test. Without strictly training for tests (Sabbit and some others passed 6th with 1800, but those are extreme cases imo) From what I've noticed over the years the rank gap between each test has been somewhere between 300-450.


Michael wrote:How much atkus did 6th require? 300? I think thats about right. So 400 for 7th? 500 for 8th? That sound high?


300 is a good average. But think about the jump from 5th to 6th? 50 atkus. 4th to 5th? 50 atkus. 3rd to 4th? you guessed it, 50 atkus. 2nd to 3rd is the only test we have that has had a 100 atkus jump. (and some would debate that with better killrates/weapon usage/race etc). My suggestion would be to keep it around a 50 increment.


Michael wrote:I remember the defense for 6th coming in at around 1k. Varied by how much was balthus and how much was detha. So 1400 for 7th, 1800 for 8th?


I know we're both obviously biased on this, but I do feel that the defense you have suggested is steep. I'm not certain atm*, but I'm sure the defense between tests is much smaller than 400. I'd say 1200 and 1400. Again I say this in order to keep the average amount of ranks between tests more or less scaled as it has been.

Michael wrote:Histia isnt really an issue, since you can always skimp on that and for most fighters its just to absorb luck hits.


I disagree, while I do feel that fighters should be able to defend against 75-85% of attacks from monsters in any given test, the other hits should be absorbed by histia.

Michael wrote:Kill rate is harder to define. You could add a high triolus critter and there by require a bare minimum kill rate, or you could go the old road and just make it enough to pass in the time given.


Stinging Beetles coming to mind, I don't know of any 6th+ fighter now that can't kill one, but that sort of idea would be nice.

Michael wrote:Webs are a bad idea, so fuck that.


agree 100%

Michael wrote:If anyone remembers the rank requirements for 4th and 5th, I think that would help see how much the requirements increase for each circle a bit more.


*I'll dust off my mac and see if I can find my old test videos (I bumped all trainers after passing for a rough idea).

Got tons more ideas, but pressed for time. I shall return!
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Post by Fundin » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:37 am

We badly need more test, they arent hard to add, the suggestions for critters are in several repeat threads of this one (still no harm in pointing it out again).

And i agree with NB we need 7-10 not 7-8. While they doing it might as well put enough test in to go until CL folds or we all hit 5000 ranks, whateve goes first :D
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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Kerrah » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:42 am

Michael wrote:If anyone remembers the rank requirements for 4th and 5th, I think that would help see how much the requirements increase for each circle a bit more.


I just passed 5th about a month ago, with the following stats:

250 Atkus
300 Balthus
250 Regia
~250 Detha (just a little below, I believe)
150 Darkus
~225 Histia

I'm a little fuzzier on what I had in terms of ranks for 4th (I passed that back in November and don't remember exactly what I had back then) but I'm pretty sure I had:

250 Atkus (this is certain)
200 Balthus
200 Regia
200 Detha
100 Darkus
Probably about 175 Histia

Hope this helps. As far as what should go into the 7th test and beyond, I have crazy ideas but they involve silly things like spriggins just to mess people up, and plus I don't feel I'd have a really good idea of what should come next until I've passed 6th myself.
Last edited by Kerrah on Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kani » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:54 am

Ideas for seventh circle were tossed around here:
http://vagilemind.com/clanlord/viewtopic.php?t=1122

Edit: I voted no, just because it was the more interestingly-phrased poll option. I'm actually in favour of more tests. :P
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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Eldon » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:56 am

Michael wrote: How much atkus did 6th require? 300? I think thats about right. So 400 for 7th? 500 for 8th? That sound high?


Note that the circle tests' requirements don't have to be linear.
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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Rhone » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:34 am

Eldon wrote:
Michael wrote: How much atkus did 6th require? 300? I think thats about right. So 400 for 7th? 500 for 8th? That sound high?


Note that the circle tests' requirements don't have to be linear.


Turn the light off in the fighter test room for 7th. That should add a new challenge.
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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Icy » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:42 am

Rhone wrote:Turn the light off in the fighter test room for 7th. That should add a new challenge.


Basically you should be shot for even suggesting this. Every area that consists of no light is a pain in the ass and poorly done.

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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Michael » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:23 pm

NB wrote:Stinging Beetles coming to mind, I don't know of any 6th+ fighter now that can't kill one, but that sort of idea would be nice.


I cant, not even close anymore. I had to destroy my kill rate to try and make up for the end game being balanced around the bullshit that is BBs. 550 atkus does wonders for your swing rate. I can sorta hit like 1 or 2 more things now though, yay!

Your other numbers sound better than mine, I forgot the rank jumps between circles were so small, its been a long time. You are definatly right about 50 atkus jump per test now that I think about it.

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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Michael » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:25 pm

Eldon wrote:
Michael wrote: How much atkus did 6th require? 300? I think thats about right. So 400 for 7th? 500 for 8th? That sound high?


Note that the circle tests' requirements don't have to be linear.


No but the fighter tests have been so far, and I think thats a good thing. They arnt the same as healer tests where you can gimp yourself as a healer to pass them. You need all the core fighter abilities to pass the tests.

Like I said, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

And we might as well go to 10 while we are at it.

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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by Michael » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:26 pm

Btw who voted no, and why?

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Re: 7th and 8th Circle Fighter Tests

Post by noivad » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:28 pm

Michael wrote:Btw who voted no, and why?


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