Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

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Is the Lack of Healers negatively affecting you, too?

Yes
22
56%
No
17
44%
 
Total votes: 39

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Daimoth
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Daimoth » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:16 pm

Cinnamon wrote:
Kerrah noticed that for there to be any game someone had to nut-up and be the healer. Kudos to her. Anyone else got the cojones?
Lol. Funny you mention her, since she almost never plays any more save the rare planned event I put together. Speaking of which, how often do you play? I haven't seen you around in months.
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by reckinyards » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:34 pm

Daimoth wrote:
Cinnamon wrote:
Kerrah noticed that for there to be any game someone had to nut-up and be the healer. Kudos to her. Anyone else got the cojones?
Lol. Funny you mention her, since she almost never plays any more save the rare planned event I put together. Speaking of which, how often do you play? I haven't seen you around in months.
she got bored of nothing happening to her class
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Brune » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:43 am

Cinnamon:
Kerrah noticed that for there to be any game someone had to nut-up and be the healer. Kudos to her. Anyone else got the cojones?
Daimoth:
Lol. Funny you mention her, since she almost never plays any more
Is this an onion of irony? It hits so many issues.

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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Talin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:03 pm

Cinnamon wrote:If you've never clicked a healer and actually believe that CL is a community game, go roll one up and don't click any other character for 5 years. No double-clicking bullshit. Anyone who says they're aren't enough people working the fields can go work the fields themselves.

Anyone who refuses is the problem. Go forth and be the solution.
I am not quite sure I understand the english right here. You suggest people who would like to click fighters, mystics, or professionless should click healers instead because that is good for the game?

If so,

consider this: CL is considered leisure time activity, not another job. The solution is not, making FIGHTERs who want to click FIGHTERs click healers instead, the solution is make healers fun again. Yes, again. We had awesome and totally enough healers over the years. What drove them away is neglect, neglect, and oh did I mention neglect? We had to complain for so many years to get an equal amount of tests as the fighters. Rangers, and Champs received so many jobs that traditionally were occasions for healers to shine. What we got in exchange is the asklepian.

Fighters: Rangers, Champs, BMs with their gadzillion new abilities, new items, quests, goals
Healers: asklepian *snore* (personal opinion. I hear 1 or 2 healers have fun with it. Funny how they dont clan much anymore though)

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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by noivad » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:32 am

Talin wrote:
Cinnamon wrote:If you've never clicked a healer and actually believe that CL is a community game, go roll one up and don't click any other character for 5 years. No double-clicking bullshit. Anyone who says they're aren't enough people working the fields can go work the fields themselves.

Anyone who refuses is the problem. Go forth and be the solution.
I am not quite sure I understand the english right here. You suggest people who would like to click fighters, mystics, or professionless should click healers instead because that is good for the game?

If so,

consider this: CL is considered leisure time activity, not another job. The solution is not, making FIGHTERs who want to click FIGHTERs click healers instead, the solution is make healers fun again. Yes, again. We had awesome and totally enough healers over the years. What drove them away is neglect, neglect, and oh did I mention neglect? We had to complain for so many years to get an equal amount of tests as the fighters. Rangers, and Champs received so many jobs that traditionally were occasions for healers to shine. What we got in exchange is the asklepian.

Fighters: Rangers, Champs, BMs with their gadzillion new abilities, new items, quests, goals
Healers: asklepian *snore* (personal opinion. I hear 1 or 2 healers have fun with it. Funny how they dont clan much anymore though)

Actually, you guys are in agreement. I'll translate Cinn for you as best I can Talin. Cinnamon is saying that CL is really imbalanced (just like you say, because of neglect). And instead of complaining about their being none available, just play one for a bit and you'll see why there are none. {Kinda. I think I'm oversimplifying his point -- possible enough to skew it -- though and am too tired to do a better job.}
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Phroon » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:50 pm

noivad wrote:Actually, you guys are in agreement. I'll translate Cinn for you as best I can Talin. Cinnamon is saying that CL is really imbalanced (just like you say, because of neglect). And instead of complaining about their being none available, just play one for a bit and you'll see why there are none. {Kinda. I think I'm oversimplifying his point -- possible enough to skew it -- though and am too tired to do a better job.}
I gave up trying to play a few months ago.

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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Turalyon[DaTz] » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:16 pm

Phroon wrote:
noivad wrote:Actually, you guys are in agreement. I'll translate Cinn for you as best I can Talin. Cinnamon is saying that CL is really imbalanced (just like you say, because of neglect). And instead of complaining about their being none available, just play one for a bit and you'll see why there are none. {Kinda. I think I'm oversimplifying his point -- possible enough to skew it -- though and am too tired to do a better job.}
I gave up trying to play a few months ago.
Which is really sad. There are a whole host of HWC/characters that I miss (Phroon included). Some large percentage of which are gone because the game didn't support their style of play. Whether these people were healers, mystics, champs, RPers, or BMs (realistically anything besides rangers) the story is the same. The game didn't favor their play style and years and years of the exact same became old.

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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by reckinyards » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:40 pm

nice to see people quitting who would otherwise play due to lack of anything for healers
11/2/09 7:02:10p Gustave says, "my fight is very vectorized"

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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Fundin » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:24 am

It's quite sad that after 2 years not really playing when I returned to just playing a tiny tiny bit there was still nothing worthwhile for healers after all that time! Healers were always the least looked at class in CL, even mystics got more lovin' :lol:

It's surely easy enough to allow healers 10 shares or to up their share from 10 to 20 or 30%. I think you need to allow more shares to healers rather than bigger % though as a bigger % will still mean the same one get the share.

Just have the 5 normal shares and then allow 5 extra shares to healers only, or 10 extra. (why healers only... because otherwise fighters will abuse it to gain even more rank)
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by xepel » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:18 pm

Fundin wrote:It's surely easy enough to allow healers 10 shares or to up their share from 10 to 20 or 30%. I think you need to allow more shares to healers rather than bigger % though as a bigger % will still mean the same one get the share.

Just have the 5 normal shares and then allow 5 extra shares to healers only, or 10 extra. (why healers only... because otherwise fighters will abuse it to gain even more rank)
I agree. We need a two part solution:
1) Increase experience going to healer (and mystic) shares. 20% would be appropriate. Ideally, they should be getting about "1 fighter" worth of experience while on a hunt, to make them an equal part. A five-fighter hunt would do that for them at this level. Perhaps 25% might be more appropriate, then a four-fighter hunt would work (and be more likely to happen).
Downside: Superfighters would complain (Daimoth et al.). I honestly don't care, fighters get plenty of benefits compared to healers, and fighters should be getting their experience from fighting, while healers get all their (in-game) experience from shares.

2) Shares need to be separated out into fighter/healer/mystic slots. Perhaps 3 fighter, 4 healer, 3 mystic slots. This way hunts wouldn't fight about adding an additional healer or mystic to the hunt ("Oh noes, now we can't circle all the fighters!") because healers, mystics, and fighters would no longer compete for share slots. There would be absolutely no reason why you wouldn't share some healers and mystics, because now you wouldn't have to worry about those in your group losing out on shares.
Downside: Fighters would complain. I don't care, again, for the same reason as above.
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Daimoth » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:24 pm

xepel wrote: Downside: Superfighters would complain (Daimoth et al.). I honestly don't care, fighters get plenty of benefits compared to healers, and fighters should be getting their experience from fighting, while healers get all their (in-game) experience from shares.
"Should be". Daimoth doesn't. And even then, should he be getting exp from monsters in undine hut or vermine tree or Jades or Noids? No. But that's where he often is.

If you're implying he should get nothing from helping new people, you can go fuck yourself and your terrible idea. If you're saying Healers should get more but Fighters who help but slaughter everything should still be shared, then I'm okay with that.
xepel wrote:Downside: Fighters would complain. I don't care, again, for the same reason as above.
I wouldn't care either, as long as I still get my shares.
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Eirian » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:55 pm

I didn't see anything in Xepel's post that would be uber fighters don't get a share, so I'm not sure why he even suggests fighters would complain (unless he's trolling).

He suggests that there be more slots for healers, or a higher percentage for healers and I don't know why that would be such a problem. In Hunts that include an Uber fighter, or a brick (basically someone way above the level of the area where the hunt is), they always get a share and I don't see anyone arguing that.

And while I don't want to ruin Dai's reputation, I have seen him quite often taking younger fighters to really low areas where they can get vanqs but his exp is just from shares. Plenty of high level fighters do this and many will take low level healers and mystics too.
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Gloria » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:53 pm

I think it can be reasonably agreed that the bricks during a hunt are needing a share.

I would support the increases in share percentage and slots as long as it didn't amount to rank acceleration.
So for example a 20% share exp, we could pretend that double the number of people are sharing the healer. That's not unreasonable.
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by xepel » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:59 pm

Daimoth wrote:"Should be". Daimoth doesn't. And even then, should he be getting exp from monsters in undine hut or vermine tree or Jades or Noids? No. But that's where he often is.

If you're implying he should get nothing from helping new people, you can go fuck yourself and your terrible idea. If you're saying Healers should get more but Fighters who help but slaughter everything should still be shared, then I'm okay with that.
The "should be" is another issue that needs to be taken care of in another thread. (Places like Crypt - where you must get experience? - shouldn't always be behind a million barriers.)

And no, I'm not suggesting you should get nothing. I'm just saying that while Fighters will get the same 10% that they do now, healers should get 20-25% of shared experience instead. (For Gloria: I don't think this is "acceleration," it's just healers finally getting their fair share. ;))
Eirian wrote:I didn't see anything in Xepel's post that would be uber fighters don't get a share, so I'm not sure why he even suggests fighters would complain (unless he's trolling).
Well, the complaint (that I would see) is that sometimes there are 4+ fighters circling, and if fighters were limited to only 3 shares to other fighters, this wouldn't be possible. I think that fighters sharing other fighters is not the ideal in terms of game vision (except in cases of a brick or somesuch), so limiting those shares to 3 (maybe 2? might be too few) would be ok.

Yes, this system would have a higher number of maximum outgoing shares (mine was 10, but that could always be modified up/down), but I don't see that as a huge problem. I think shares tie the community together and are a decent part of what ClanLord "is".
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Re: Healers - the Lack of Them is starting to be a Big Problem

Post by Eirian » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:25 pm

I think fighters can accept not sharing all other fighters; I go on plenty where we have 2 or 3 healers and so only the brick gets a share from everyone, and then if there are any shares spaces left, everyone circles.

On some hunts, this can leave mystics out in the cold, and that's one reason I support extra slots for them and maybe a higher percentage. I don't have avery clear idea of how many ranks mystics need to be able to be good at boosting or locating or porting, etc.
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