Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by TreeBeard » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:48 pm

Borzon wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:22 am
An Arindal player remade the Arindal town (Arilon) in Roblox back in the day. It is certainly doable but I don't think it will capture CL's spirit at all.
I agree with you about the spirit of the game. I just think it may be a silly nod of familiarity. Maybe I will try messing around with it one day. I will have to check out the Arindal one if it still exists!
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Hoggle » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:43 pm

I remember back in the Minecraft Alpha days we built Puddleby. It was fun to build, but yeah.. its not Clanlord.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Sek'tor Glich » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:31 am

Destian wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:52 pm
To make what would be a long post comparatively short, CL2 could keep largely the same combat and character progression system as CL1 (aka progression that happens over years and years) if it could be an MMO experience centered around story arcs that happen over the course of a "season" (much in the way competitive seasons happen in modern shooters).

But it's only going to work if CL2 constantly places story in the limelight, doing things like:

-Keeping an up-to-date story journal on the main website that summarizes story events and progress on a daily basis, including which players participated in them and what transpired or was discovered.

-Having "live visionstones" in game that allow players who've opted in to watch important story events unfolding as other players trigger them, sort of like a news network for plot.

-Being intertwined with social media in such as way that information about in game events and hints as to story events about to unfold is tweeted to followers whenever it's about to happen.

Basically, this would be an MMO where the storyline IS the progression. Matrix Online attempted this years back and failed, mainly because of how challenging it was to hold events across multiple servers.

I see CL2 as a single server game, but aiming to appeal to the niche of players who play games for the story and can't get that kind of experience from other MMOs.

IMO, CL was at its absolute best when the story was unfolding. It was in-game history and you were there to see it: this unrepeatable, unique event, that could very well shape the history of the rest of the game.

No other game has that kind of power.

With modern game development tools, I'm certain a relatively small GM staff could handle running live events and making the world interesting on a daily basis, but that depends upon what the revenue source of the game would be.

I could see CL2 successfully marketing itself as a "specialty MMO", since the idea would be to tout the in-game storyline and GM-controlled characters as the selling point of the game.

The bottom line is that so few (if any) MMOs try to be anything other than what amounts to an ultimately pointless leveling treadmill. CL2's niche would be MMO players who want to experience a living, breathing fantasy world where the events of the storyline aren't just endlessly repeatable schlock like so many themepark MMOs offer.
I've been keeping up with all of the comments between the two threads, and I think Destian is very in-tune with my vision of a CL2. Here are some of my thoughts, though:

-I think single-server becomes too much of a hassle as your population expands beyond 1000-3000 (which I'd plan for as I'd be marketing this pretty hard). Even though CL looks like a simple game, networking is a nightmare when you're doing entity collision on the server with thousands of connected clients. Puddleby would also have to be designed with this larger population base in mind. We'd use a single server in the beginning as a testbed, but have a system in place like everquest that would allow players to see how many are online at a time, so they can move to a less populated server as they prefer, and that new accounts would be directed towards (but not forced to be on) the newer servers.

-There were so many game mechanics in CL that could be stripped away or refactored, which have nothing to do with the "feel" of Clanlord.

-With the storyline being the central focus, every aspect of the game would cater to this. Collaborative unlocking of storyline elements, a website that allows you to "catch up" to the progression that the server is on (the visionstones and descriptions of what has happened), possibly even different storyline angles for each server based on player choices, so that playing on a server is a unique-to-server experience.

As far as my seriousness for building this game -- I'm very serious about it. I'm building it with my own money/time, and not asking anything of the playerbase except to wait. The comments from the other thread make it seem like 80% of the playerbase wouldn't give it a shot, and that's okay. It is a new game that we're looking at, and new memories for a new playerbase that we're looking to create. I wouldn't clone Clanlord without the rights to the IP, though, since I just don't see that as an ethical approach to building a game. If it were the case where we'd just never get those rights, I'd build a different game.

As it stands right now, I just created a pretty hot SaaS product that's already getting a lot of customers signed up before even officially launching, so that will take up my time for at least the next 6 months before I can hire a few to take it over. From past experiences with Clanlord and Delta Tao, that will put things right about when we'll get a response.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Fogtripper » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:09 pm

The fact that we have heard no feedback directly from or indirectly from Joe at this point, screams volumes.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Destian » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:21 am

Fogtripper wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:09 pm
The fact that we have heard no feedback directly from or indirectly from Joe at this point, screams volumes.
I suspect Joe literally could not care less about CL at this point, which is why I suggest that CL2 be a spiritual successor that uses some similar game mechanics instead of an actual sequel.

Also, the community should do whatever it wants with the existing server and code. Do we actually think Joe is going to sue anyone? For what? There's no money to be made off of CL and even filing a cease and desist order would incur a legal fee.

Decide what you want to do without Joe. He'll do the same thing he has for over a decade: nothing.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but when we have GMs talking about how even THEY are barely able to get two words out of him over 20 years, it's time to stop pretending that he's at all relevant to this discussion.
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Icy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:19 pm

Destian wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:21 am
I'm sorry to be blunt, but when we have GMs talking about how even THEY are barely able to get two words out of him over 20 years, it's time to stop pretending that he's at all relevant to this discussion.
I hate to say it but he is. It's his IP (or at least Delta Tao Software, Inc.) so he has rights to it. However, I searched the Copyright office database and find no mention of Delta Tao Software and only one mention of Clan Lord belonging to Epic Games Inc. So while you are free to just up and make your own he can always expedite file and sue you even if your world is up and running with thousands of people if its based on his IP.
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Destian » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:52 pm

Icy wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:19 pm
So while you are free to just up and make your own he can always expedite file and sue you even if your world is up and running with thousands of people if its based on his IP.
I'm referring to keeping the CL1 server up for those who still want to play it in this case, and I cannot imagine Joe suing for that.

CL2 is a separate issue, and as I said, calling it anything but "CL2" and not using any of the original assets means Joe wouldn't be able to say or do a thing about it. Just look at any of the thousands of clones of popular games out there.
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Jazz » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:03 am

After reading more and more about Arindal... you want CL2 just get the Arindal code and massage that into CL2. Sure you'd still need to update the client for modern OS etc., but you have a different foundation, but a familiar feel. Reading about Mage crystals, healers located fallens, different economy/trade/items etc. etc. sounds like it fixed a lot of what was wrong with JoeLord™ in the first place.

Then again... Arindal didn't make it so...

Was Arindal the same thing as Alchera?? They just renamed it right?
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Mac » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:32 pm

Jazz wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:03 am
Then again... Arindal didn't make it so...
I'm talking out my ass (but I could also be correct), I think Arindal was paying DT a licensing fee so they needed to make X amount of money to pay that plus pay for whatever the server costs were. I think Arindal shutting down had more to do with that than lack of interest.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Destian » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:55 pm

Mac wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:32 pm
Jazz wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:03 am
Then again... Arindal didn't make it so...
I'm talking out my ass (but I could also be correct), I think Arindal was paying DT a licensing fee so they needed to make X amount of money to pay that plus pay for whatever the server costs were. I think Arindal shutting down had more to do with that than lack of interest.
Plus, while I love retro games, there's zero question that a more modern aesthetic would massively increase the appeal of a game like this.
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Maeght » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:18 pm

You could increase the CL aesthetic 10 times and still be 10 times behind the times. You're not competing against the CL standard, you're trying to make a new game and compete with state of the art.

If you're going to make something new, I would suggest not shooting for an improved CL. That bar is too low to support a commercially viable game. (Which CL never really was.)

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Gorvin » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:08 pm

Maeght wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:18 pm
You could increase the CL aesthetic 10 times and still be 10 times behind the times. You're not competing against the CL standard, you're trying to make a new game and compete with state of the art.

If you're going to make something new, I would suggest not shooting for an improved CL. That bar is too low to support a commercially viable game. (Which CL never really was.)
I wouldn't be so sure. There have been plenty of successful indie games in recent years that I wouldn't exactly consider to be state of the art. Making an MMO is a lot riskier than other genres but not entirely out of the question. See Realm of the Mad God, Aberoth, or Wurm Unlimited for a few examples.

That said, there's going to be a lot of effort needed in advertising as well as making sure the game is actually fun to play right from the start of the game, or people either aren't going to know about the game or won't stick around. Being stuck hunting rats for weeks or having to be babysat by stronger characters is probably not going to fly with most people.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Maeght » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:36 am

Gorvin wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:08 pm
I wouldn't be so sure. There have been plenty of successful indie games in recent years that I wouldn't exactly consider to be state of the art. Making an MMO is a lot riskier than other genres but not entirely out of the question. See Realm of the Mad God, Aberoth, or Wurm Unlimited for a few examples.

That said, there's going to be a lot of effort needed in advertising as well as making sure the game is actually fun to play right from the start of the game, or people either aren't going to know about the game or won't stick around. Being stuck hunting rats for weeks or having to be babysat by stronger characters is probably not going to fly with most people.
Perhaps. But most of what I've seen posted here targets improved graphics and the first two aren't, as near as I can tell, what they're talking about. Wurm seems closer to the mark.

I hope they make a go of it.

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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Destian » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:34 pm

Maeght wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:18 pm
You could increase the CL aesthetic 10 times and still be 10 times behind the times. You're not competing against the CL standard, you're trying to make a new game and compete with state of the art.
I mean, there are still successful games being made today that have very retro styled sprite graphics so it's far from impossible (the FPS could stand to come up, though).

The only "state of the art" things CL lacks are modern gaming conventions that would allow players to make some form of progress while solo (and not by double-clicking) and systems that allow players to more quickly jump into hunts.
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Re: Clanlord 1 and Clanlord 2.

Post by Hoggle » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:54 pm

What are you guys even talking about? If this whole Sektor CL2 thing happened, I believe he is talking about using the current sprite sets. As cool as something like a Don't Starve mix of 2d on a 3d plane would be or whatever, I don't think his plans involved creating new graphics at all.

I honestly find the pixel art to be pretty great. I mean, it would be so much better with a broader palette than 256 colors, but there are really good animations/sprite sets to use.

If a new engine was used, maybe we could do some on the fly palette swaps and not need like 5 whole sets of recolor sprites taking up space. Imagine all the clothing possibilities then.

The main issue that makes Clanlord feel so damn dated is that frame rate. It makes you feel like you are on dial-up. With a good frame I'm sure any real graphic issues wouldn't be an issue at all for most people.

I don't know what "increasing the CL aesthetic 10 times" even means though. Like 10 times larger? 10 times more frames of animation? 10 betterness?

The sprites aren't really the problem as I see it.

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