v1042 discussion

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Helios
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Helios » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:09 pm

Chum wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:38 pm
And I don't want to be the big nay-sayer, but this seems like less a situation of "how to save it?" as "what would be the best way for it to end?" Maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's how it seems.

Or maybe I'm wrong. It has happened once or twice before... ;)
I really want to be able to tell you you're wrong Chum. But I think you're probably being less of a "nay-sayer," and more of a realist. If you are right, I'd definitely hope for it to be a graceful end, too.
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Wangah Rah says, "Don't be a fool."

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Shakyamuni » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:10 pm

We need to hear from Joe. If you have any way to contact him now would be the time
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Ann » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:13 pm

Money for the hosting service isn't likely to be a problem. It's not that expensive. Likewise, as Adar says, the images and music are finally starting to qualify as retro. :)

I haven't been more than a fly on the wall in Clan Lord development for 10 years now, but as I understand it, the main issues are the Account Portal, clients, and world-building apps. Way back when, a couple of people were actually being paid to work on Clan Lord -- it was my full-time job for 6 years -- and were responsible for most of the boring stuff in addition to many wonderfully fun parts. But it's been all-volunteer for a long time now, and porting a ton of ancient software is not the kind of fun work it's reasonable to expect volunteers to do.

I have talked with Joe fairly recently, though not about this topic. I'll certainly get in touch with him.

Ann

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Adar » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:20 pm

But it's been all-volunteer for a long time now, and porting a ton of ancient software is not the kind of fun work it's reasonable to expect volunteers to do.
Any idea how much money it would take to make this a palatable short-term job opportunity? That would be the baseline for a crowdsourced funding decision. Ballpark is fine. I don't even know what order of magnitude cash we're talking about here.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Dyaus » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:28 pm

So without a full client port, we'd eventually end up with clients that don't work on modern operating systems.

Is that a serious problem? Clan Lord requires so few resources that I expect it wouldn't be a big deal to run within a virtual machine. Surely writing an easy-to-follow guide for setting that up would be easier than porting the whole client.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by xepel » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:34 pm

Argh! If CL goes away, how will I be able to play my music (once a year when I feel nostalgic)? :( I've got morphs to finish, areas to explore, years of library experience to spend!

If it has to go away, it should go away in the least ClanLord-like way - lift the veil a bit! Portals to far-off (and even not-released) areas, let us know if there are mysteries we haven't solved, rank fountains, make everyone a mystic. ;) (From most to least plausible, of course.)

But hopefully it doesn't have to. I'm happy to help where I can, but it's hard to know what's even an option.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Ann » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:49 pm

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but there's one Easter egg I put in that nobody's yet discovered as far as I know...

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Shakyamuni » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:07 pm

Ann wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:49 pm
Not to sidetrack the discussion, but there's one Easter egg I put in that nobody's yet discovered as far as I know...
I like Eggs :) I am the Egg Man.. Koo Koo Kachoo!
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Krane » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:53 am

Aww
This game is so great!! That's really sad news.
First thing that comes to mind is a very very big Thank You all (DT, GMs, Helpers, Players/Friends) for such good times

Second thing is, the reasons why the end is close seem unclear to me. Not sure it's IT related (pay bandwidth, upgrade clients...) or not any more "will"/possibilities to keep the world alive.
CL is not a commercial success anymore but is still an exceptional game and social "experiment"

I'd be happy to put more thinking in how to make it lives longer, bit I think it first needs some clear and shared understanding of what the problems are and what are the possibilities

Again thanks a lot, so many good memories

Silky

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by thesquib » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:54 am

First of all, I really hope we can find a way to preserve the Clan Lord World - even if it is not necessarily with the current clients, and/or server and/or tooling. I'll donate time to create a new multiplatform client. Perhaps there's more that needs to be done to maintain the existing server/portal code bases, IDK.
I made a quick hack at a web based client (not fully featured) and to be honest, the basic client side functionality is not too complex to replicate. The networking handshake was interesting.... It basically had two components, proxy client and a browser based client. The proxy client actually connected to CL (TCP/UDP), and then sent the game data over a websocket to the browser. My preference would be to make a multiplatform client with a single code base - not hard to do these days. The world building tools can be built in the same code base perhaps.

I like the idea of a community supported game... To keep alive a piece of history. I mean, it already has been community supported for a long time (big thanks all involved!).

This is a game I've played on and off for many many years. I remember playing way back when there were weekly? wipes, and it was fun just exploring the areas nearby. And I racked up a friggin expensive bill on my $5 an hour internet.

Thanks for all the fun over the years!!!
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Org du Lac » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:10 am

I realize it's more of a money than time issue, but I bet you'd easily raise $10k for a kickstarter for someone to port the client. I'd definitely chip in a few hundred to keep it going since heck, I haven't paid for the monthly fees in 10 years. Maybe someone could pay Skirwan to make his client up-to-date.

At the very least... it'd be wonderful to get those semi-released areas opened and get some life back in the game before OS 10.14 or whatever kills the client and developer tools.

I was amazed at how many people were around last year for the v1000 fun (before it became the v1000 shenanigans) -- easily 40-50 people on simultaneously again during weekends. I think a lot of people would come back for Cool Things. I know I'd come back and spend more time if there was a 0.00001% chance to find mirror shards and pine branches. I mean, obviously giving out candy/new areas/new items can only get people to stay for so long, but... at least it'd give us a good last year?

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Sonny_Bill » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:30 am

Honestly, I think it's a good opportunity to close up shop in a graceful manner and see where we can go from there. The community is unique and I get that people wanna hold onto it. However, this is really in their hands (and I'm sure many already know each other IRL...etc).

My thoughts for ending the game in grace are:
1. Give us notice so that we can get a MASSIVE group of players online for a few hours
2. Surprise us with 1 final story
3. Stay true to form
4. A proper 'ending' movie could be nice

After all the grinding and frustration I've gone through to get my characters where they are (possibly more distress and frustration than anybody else whether that's a good thing or not), this is not an easy thing to say. But, it is what it is.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Mac » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 am

Please keep in mind that I already stopped playing for all the reasons described in the news announcement... Pick a date and end it. The reality is that sooner or later something will break and you simply wont be able to log in anymore. If I were still playing, I'd much rather be able to say goodbye than simply have it disappear one day.

As far as the future goes:

Anything short of a complete rerwite of all the systems (client, servers, builders) is just kicking the can down the road (I probably wouldn't bother coming back without these).

Any new work should be done with the goal to bring in new players, not just to keep the lights on. IMHO, getting 10 new people to play the game long term is more important than keeping that 1 old grumpy player (myself included).

There's no kind way of saying it, but I'm probably not ever coming back to a game where the ultimate design/decision making is held by people who don't play the game or have any interaction with it beyond owning it/being there when it started. Any future project would have to have a clear management and their attachment to the game for me to trust the project enough to want to invest my time/money.

The basic gameplay of CL is simplistic and fantastic for mobile. A future that doesn't include mobile (and probably web client) is probably pointless. (This would probably require a complete rework of the game since currently mobile ping makes is kinda ass to play.)

I see no significant problem with the art/style of the game or reusing the art assets.

I'd much rather see CL2 than a continuation of CL. Frankly the class balance (among other things) of CL is shit and needs to be reworked so that all classes are fun to play and equally capable of contributing to the fun of themselves and others. (Another example of something that is terrible in CL is the exp sharing system.)

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Chum » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:25 am

Btw, I don't think this has been said yet (at least not by me), but...

A super-big THANK YOU to all of you, too!

You, the players, made Clan Lord what it is. All of the areas, art, NPCs and whatnot would have been for naught without you. I have had a great deal of fun with all of you and will miss playing with you a great deal. Regardless of what happens to the game, there's no reason the community can't continue for as long as the members care to continue participating.

Peace, love, and crazy Hawaiian shirts...
~Chum
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Jazz » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:08 am

Maeght wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:54 pm
One way to cut development costs might be to require running a "frozen" Mac OS in a virtual machine.
I may be out of date as I haven't tried it in awhile, but it used to be prohibitively ridiculous trying to virtualize MacOS and run it in say VirtualBox etc. Maybe nowadays it's not as big a deal, but I don't think that's a viable solution regardless... for the "masses".
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