v1042 discussion

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Maeght
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Maeght » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:48 pm

There's plenty of reason to speculate. It might help the CL2 people refine their ideas. It might help Joe form his comments.

It definitely lets people blow off steam until something happens.

If you don't know what "soon" means by now, you really should have moved on years ago.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Destian » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Maeght wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:48 pm
There's plenty of reason to speculate. It might help the CL2 people refine their ideas. It might help Joe form his comments.
Maybe we can bait Joe into responding. Let's start by bashing his favorite soda and move on from there...
It definitely lets people blow off steam until something happens.
Is anyone really mad, though?

I feel like everyone should've been expecting it, though it's still an absolute shame.

The only bigger shame is that without a CL2 (or equivalent spiritual successor), a solid vision for a story-driven, cooperative online game is going to be lost to the ages. :\
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Maeght » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:28 pm

People have been saying that CL is dying since beta.

Imaginary games are great. But ideas tend to be much more satisfying than implementations.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Destian » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:21 pm

Maeght wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:28 pm
People have been saying that CL is dying since beta.
And now they're right, though.

As I said in one of these threads, CL has been running for years solely because of volunteer GMs. It's actually rather similar to what happens when an MMO shuts down and someone puts up a private server with the software running on it. It just so happened that CL's "private" server was also its actual server.
Imaginary games are great. But ideas tend to be much more satisfying than implementations.
That's the beauty of CL2: we already know most of these concepts work, especially the interactive storyline.

As I said earlier, I don't know if CL2 will ever happen, but it'd be a shame if it didn't for reasons I've already stated a few times over.
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Jazz » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:07 am

Destian wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:21 pm
Maeght wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:28 pm
People have been saying that CL is dying since beta.
And now they're right, though.
But it's hella easier to fix the portal, modernize the CL1 client and possibly inject some sort of new story driven life into it than to create a CL2. With such a saturation of games already... why bother? Keep the current legacy alive. That's my vote anyways.
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Org du Lac » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:40 am

Adar wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:23 pm
While we were talking it over he reminded me of the moon manual I picked up at auction. To him that also represents the level of extreme decay the game is at. First of all - it's an important piece of a plotline (that never went anywhere beyond the opening chapter). That it wound up at the auction house says that the player who had it in stash had lost hope of its immediate usefulness to the extent that they went and put it in storage. And then stopped playing the game long enough that their storage items went to auction. A random midbie (me) picked it up - suggesting that even the current playerbase was unaware or unconcerned about its role in the unfinished storyline... because that storyline was unlikely to ever be concluded... because cycle up to the last paragraph: if you add too much to this strained system the odds are extremely likely that it'll bork the game.
I agree with you in principle, but just FWIW the moon manual is not an example of that -- it's not a unique item (nor even a rare item, I have a couple), and it's also from literally the most recently added region of the game (which has been, admittedly, exactly 2 OOC years now). There are a bunch of long-time abandoned storylines, but the moon manual is one of the few that has a reasonable probability of being resolved in the upcoming time for CL.

Still, plenty of other semi-recent examples, most notably (for me), the Shadowguild quest on Thieves' Island, and the zombie healers deep underground (Bukwrym and ... someone else).

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Shakyamuni » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:57 am

Didn’t go back to find it, but Yappy has said Joe resplied to the GMs. We don’t know what has or hasn’t been said, but we at least have that.
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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Pengy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:14 am

Dear Rune,

I am writing specifically to you. I want others to read this message but this is for you. I want your dad to read this aloud to you.

Creating content for this game is tricky. Sometimes it's like herding cats and then using a hammer because you don't have a screwdriver. But it is done out of love. Love for the game itself and love for the players. I'm speaking for myself but I believe this to be true of all GMs. Even the ones who are idiots and should be whacked upside the head. Some GMs you might never have heard of are gobsmackingly brilliant and I feel lucky to have met them. Like any group of people there are subgroups and weirdos and clever ones and frustrating ones and loud ones and quiet ones. And who any of them are depends on who you ask.

I've been playing Clan Lord and making content for it for longer than you have been alive. This weird group of people (GMs) believed I had something to offer and accepted me into their fold. I've done an insane amount of work contributing to the game over the years. And I've taken time off and disappeared and left threads unattended but I keep coming back and doing what I can here and there.

Recently I have been adding new areas, trying to tie up old loose ends, working on a new pretty-big quest, adding a bunch of story stuff and creating some chaos in game when I've been online. The usual Pengy stuff.

It's after 1 o'clock in the morning for me and I'm writing to you because your Dad's message made me feel it was important to speak to you.

Some of what I do for the game is silly and some of it is doing the coding to make NPCs speak in languages or Slime Monsters split into pieces or let you open an Ethereal Portal. There's no text book for this. I have to read a bunch of other scripts and coding to figure out how to do it myself and then ask questions to people far more clever than me, then they have to find the time to answer me, and I try things, make mistakes, figure out other ways. I try really hard not to break things in the game. Clan Lord is incredibly complicated and incredibly interconnected. Things you wouldn't think had anything to do with each other turn out to be connected. Things you think should be easy sometimes are crazy difficult. But with a little imagination there are ways to do most of the things we try to do. Sometimes we make mistakes and it makes us feel awful and we do amazing things to correct those mistakes.

I'm not the only one. We absolutely can and do add new material and we are. Not as fast as anyone would like, including us. But I'm not paid and I have a big, wonderful life outside Clan Lord. Sometimes it's more fun for me to play guitar badly and try to learn new chord than it is to play Clan Lord. Sometimes it's more fun to play No Man's Sky or GTA V or recently I've been really enjoying Metal Gear Solid Phantom Pain. And by "enjoying" I mean it makes me want to throw my controller at the TV when a mission goes wrong.

When I work on Clan Lord it is because I feel inspired and interested. It is players like YOU who make me feel that way. It is players who laugh and do goofy things and have adventures and build the history of the game with me who keep pulling me back to do new stuff. I absolutely understand your frustration. I bet I have the same frustrations you do.

Please don't ever think you need ranks to make a difference in Clan Lord. Yes you might be more fun to hunt with for other players and more useful in dangerous situations etc. But I never look at how many ranks someone has when I'm doing stuff that involves players. Get involved in the silliness or get involved in the stories or get involved in the role playing. I couldn't care less if you are a newbie on day one or an old timer like your dad. Sometimes people who are fallen and just talking are the most fun.

I'm not sure the game will ever be as popular as it was when it was at its best. But if we all walk away from it when we get frustrated then it definitely will never be. Please don't give up on us. It's okay to go do something else for a while. Even a long while. Go learn a musical instrument. But check back every now and then. Without people like you I wouldn't bother.

Yours with immense regard,

Pengy.

As a post script to this message, I understand people want to hear from Joe for some sort of guidance but in reality he's never told me what to do or what not to do. There is an odd sort of peer pressure from other GMs but we have much freedom to do what we think is best and we do. The end result is the bizarre chaos that is CL. If anyone has read the Valve Handbook... working on Clan Lord is like that but not nearly as structured. ;)

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Icy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:52 am

Yer a good penguin
3/3/15 9:27:45a Icy has fallen to a Rat.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Shakyamuni » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:18 am

Nope a penguin didn’t just make me tear up. It’s the cold weather.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by thesquib » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am

Hey Pengy - just wanted to say a big Penguin thanks! I've had fun while you've been up to mischief recently :D
I keep seeing Pengy everywhere, including on my own Rank Tracker profile...

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Sativa » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Thanks Pengy! I really appreciate reading that message. It really reminded me why I played so long without ever doing anything "useful." As mad as I got at the mystic guild, I still found a unique joy of using phantasms. I love stirring up trouble in the roleplaying sense, and bothering the GM's to make that trouble manifest in all new ways. Those little things made the gaining of ranks less important than the fun to be had just being a part of the world. Thanks for that message to Rune. I know it was not for me directly, but I still felt it :-D

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Maeght » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:19 pm

Thank you, Pengy.

Having taken a swing at the area editor, I'm (almost) struck speechless at the herculean amount of <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot> work you've contributed.

Thank you.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Adar » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:39 pm

Pengy,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and thorough response to Rune. I was really touched by that, and I know he will be too. Unfortunately the dude forgot about a rather substantial social studies assignment and spent the evening freaking out and scrambling. But I will have him read your message tomorrow after school.

And I should say that I appreciate the response on my own account as well. With school age kids, my own career and many other obligations... gaming falls fairly far down the priority list these days, due to lack of time rather than interest or desire. There has always been a bit of a 'black box' element to Clan Lord in terms of how decisions get made and what the behind-the-scenes state-of-the-union is... and since I can't devote the time to really invest in regular play I definitely feel a bit out of the loop. In depth responses such as yours really do help fill in the blanks for me, and I'm sure others feel the same. And as someone who never ever has enough time for all the things I want to do (including volunteer work), hats off to the all volunteer GM team. I'm sure you have busy lives like mine, and volunteered time is very precious. I appreciate the time it took to write that thoughtful response, as well as all the things you do that I cannot see.

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Re: v1042 discussion

Post by Pengy » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:07 am

Has anyone read the Valve Handbook?

I highly recommend it.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Va ... LowRes.pdf

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