Improved Healers Shares

Polls, discussion and commentary on suggested issues.

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Gurgi
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Improved Healers Shares

Post by Gurgi » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:49 am

One of the problems healers have is with xp in small groups. I was thinking this could be fixed if healers got xp from shares a little differently (just healers though perhaps mystics could be thrown this bone too):

1st person to share them gives 25%
2nd person to share them gives 20%
3rd person to share them gives 15%
4th person and every person after gives 10%

The healers would have to tell people to share them in a certain order if they were worried about who was giving which percentage. This would allow a healer to hunt with a part of 3 fighters and still get 60% of the xp earned by the group. This might encourage more healers to come out and play even when there is not a big hunt with lots of shares. Doesn't that sound reasonable?

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Mjollnir » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:23 am

Sounds like a headache to me, it would be one hell of a faff to start each hunt with right share me in order 1 2 3 4 no no fighter 2 fighter 1 wasnt paying attention so you need to unshare me and reshare me when i tell you, then later on oh fighter 2 has DC'd and dropped his shares right fighters 3 and 4 when he gets back please unshare me then reshare me in order again.

To say nothing of what happens if somebody joins/leaves/gets replaced which would require a complete reshuffling of the shares.

For something like this to work the healer would have to be able to designate which share they wanted to fill each slot rather than requiring the fighters to do it in order (look how hard it is to get circle shares sorted and magnify that by 5)
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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Shadowfire » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:23 am

What about just doubling incoming share XP for healers and mystics?

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Borzon
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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Borzon » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:36 am

Shadowfire wrote:What about just doubling incoming share XP for healers and mystics?
ya

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Sproutfoot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:06 am

I look at it from a different angle. Not so much that healers/mystics need more XP per share, but rather that fighters need a bonus for sharing the healers/mystics in the first place. No, I do not mean an XP bonus, but perhaps a balance bonus or such.

/end2¢

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Talas » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:32 am

this could really be true...
at least it should be something like if someone re-shares and is idle (xp-wise all healers are idle) you get streamed back of your earned xp...

Anyhow the game mechanic teaches that you share those who help you when you're fallen the next day again...
If none of them are around I prefer sharing those who share back and not those who seem to take it as the most natural of the world to be shared while not shareing back...
I often see it when 5-7 people are around (including Stora and Libra Ann) and only a few of them shareing back...
I really prefer to give Stora some xp than those other non-caring people then...

@topic: I believe it's not noted in the database which was the first incoming share and what was the second...
Thats not how anyone would code that I'd assume... And even if it would be - and would be treated differently there would be a problem... what happens if #1 unshares while #2 still shares and then #1 shares again? Easy to say "move down in the queue" but pretty unhandy to code...
Maybe better something like
if (num(inc_shares) == 1) earned_xp = streamed_xp * 1.5
elseif (num(inc_shares) == 2) earned_xp = streamed_xp * 1.4
...

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Lorikeet » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:26 am

The database must keep track of the order of shares because it drops them off in order. ON the other hand, Mjollnir's post gave me a nice chuckle. At last the fighters could laugh at the healers share problem, instead of us laughing at their sorry attempts at circling ;)

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Dyaus » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:22 am

The order in which people share you shouldn't matter IMO -- that is extremely unfun in practice.

I would prefer something like...

1 person sharing you: 25% exp (25% total)
2 people sharing: 19% each (38% total)
3 people sharing: 16% each (48% total)
4 people sharing: 14% each (56% total)
5+ people sharing: 12.5% each

Something like that. (Numbers are rough guesses of what I think is appropriate :p )

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Gorvin » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:33 am

Dyaus wrote:The order in which people share you shouldn't matter IMO -- that is extremely unfun in practice.

I would prefer something like...

1 person sharing you: 25% exp (25% total)
2 people sharing: 19% each (38% total)
3 people sharing: 16% each (48% total)
4 people sharing: 14% each (56% total)
5+ people sharing: 12.5% each

Something like that. (Numbers are rough guesses of what I think is appropriate :p )
That wouldn't work well either, because not all shares are worth the same experience.

7/5/11 6:00:00p Currently sharing experiences with you: LowLevelFighterA, LowLevelFighterB.
7/5/11 6:00:05p HealerA begins sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:08p You think to HealerA, "unshare me, you're making me earn less exp!"
7/5/11 6:00:10p HealerA is no longer sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:15p HighLevelFighterA begins sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:20p You think to HighLevelFighterA, "unshare me, you're making me earn less exp!"
7/5/11 6:00:26p HighLevelFighterA is no longer sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:31p HealerB begins sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:32p HealerC begins sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:34p HighLevelFighterB begins sharing experiences with you.
7/5/11 6:00:37p You yell, "FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-"

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Dyaus » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:40 pm

Gorvin wrote:
Dyaus wrote:The order in which people share you shouldn't matter IMO -- that is extremely unfun in practice.

I would prefer something like...

(snip)
That wouldn't work well either, because not all shares are worth the same experience.
Fair enough.

Perhaps a better solution would be to use Gurgi's suggestion, but have the "bonus" exp shares decided & prioritized by the Healer's outgoing shares. For example...

Kisa is on a hunt with 8 other people. 3 taggers, 2 midbies, 1 uber Fighter, 2 healers.

Naturally, all the Fighters are sharing her. If she then return shares with the 3 taggers and 2 midbies (in ascending order by slaughter), she theoretically maximizes her incoming share exp.
Last edited by Dyaus on Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Gloria » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:47 pm

I disagree with the suggestion as it would amount to accelerated exp . gain for healers, which I oppose.

I would agree with a suggestion to add two share slots just for healers and two just for mystics.
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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Turalyon[DaTz] » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:17 pm

It isn't about accelerating experience for healers, it is about providing experience equivalent to difficulty.

Gurgi suggested the idea on a hunt in Slate Caves, one of the most challenging areas in the game. I made a comment about how I rank about once an hour there with a good pace (which is insane for me) and Kisa/Astor commented afterwards that their experience was not that good. We then agreed that a RF farm hunt with 1/2 bricks and 5+ taggers is mostly boring, not challenging at all, yet yields more experience. Since we only had 4 fighters, none of which were "great" shares, the experience they gained pales in comparison to the RF hunts even though it is 10x more difficult.

I think Gurgi came up with this idea to help make a slate cave style hunt (or any uber high level area where taggers can't come) as profitable for healers as a RF hunt. It makes sense given the huge disparity in difficulty.

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Daimoth » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:51 pm

Gloria wrote:I disagree with the suggestion as it would amount to accelerated exp . gain for healers, which I oppose.
Exp should be accelerated. When players can't notice gains _at all_ from the hours that they invest online, then the incentive to remain active decreases substantially.
Extreme level disparity is community disparity.

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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Gloria » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:02 pm

I would support a suggestion to allow a 'guaranteed minimum' experience per day. For example, if everyone was guaranteed to earn at least one-half rank per day that would be great. I don't know how bad being a super oldbie is, but it seems like it would get really slow.
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Re: Improved Healers Shares

Post by Eirian » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:26 pm

Turalyon[DaTz] wrote:It isn't about accelerating experience for healers, it is about providing experience equivalent to difficulty.

Gurgi suggested the idea on a hunt in Slate Caves, one of the most challenging areas in the game. I made a comment about how I rank about once an hour there with a good pace (which is insane for me) and Kisa/Astor commented afterwards that their experience was not that good. We then agreed that a RF farm hunt with 1/2 bricks and 5+ taggers is mostly boring, not challenging at all, yet yields more experience. Since we only had 4 fighters, none of which were "great" shares, the experience they gained pales in comparison to the RF hunts even though it is 10x more difficult.

I think Gurgi came up with this idea to help make a slate cave style hunt (or any uber high level area where taggers can't come) as profitable for healers as a RF hunt. It makes sense given the huge disparity in difficulty.
I think this is really useful context for making clear the problem the OP is trying to address.

I think letting healers prioritize among incoming share somehow might be the best option, or maybe just multiplying the exp. from higher lever players, to make up for the lesser amount of exp. they generate.
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