Bank Loans/Payment Plans

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Great Idea.
3
38%
Good Idea, needs tweaking.
2
25%
Meh, I don't care.
1
13%
Bad idea!
2
25%
 
Total votes: 8

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NewMan
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Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by NewMan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:43 pm

Cammie wrote:Coming up with 20k lumpsum for an item that might break immediately is a far cry from spending an occasional 200c on trophies or furniture that doesn't break.
I couldn't say it better myself.

Poor people are not inclined to go to the effort of saving 20k for an item, particularly if they have a hard time coming up with something as small as 100c. It takes a lot of patience, something many people do not have in large quantities, and there are a lot of things they may get interested in in the meantime. I don't think being poor should prevent you from ever owning something like a catsbane necklace or nice clothes. Therefore, I suggest a possible fix for this problem:

How about a system for the poorer folks in town (and there are a lot of them) to get loans from the bank for expensive items. They then can have the option of paying it back in installments (eg: 50c a day at 10% interest - the interest makes the item more expensive in the, the consequence of getting the benefit of paying back the loan in installments, which is less of a hassle all in all). The money could be collected automatically when you wake up in the library or something to ensure you don't screw with the bank. Or it could be voluntary, but if you fail to pay the loan back as agreed, they take the item(s) you bought with the loan back and never loan to you again. Oh and before anyone says something like "why don't you borrow the money from a fellow clanner", no one in Lands would be particularly inclined to cough up their hard earned coin for someone else, particularly when it is a sum on the order of 5, 10 or 20k.

As Cammie points out, it is a lot easier to pay small sums over a period of time than it is to spend months or years to save the lump some needed for something.

Just a thought.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Daimoth » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:07 pm

I like it as long as it's done by a south town loan shark and a gangland thug comes by when you haven't made your payments.

"Where's mah money? YOU GOTZ MAH MONEY? HUH?!"

Before you get promptly beaten to a pulp.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Skirwan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:26 pm

/equip "Loan Shark License"
/use /loan Zynx 1000 /repay 2000 /duration 10 days ooc

(Skirwan offers Zynx a loan.)

• Skirwan has offered to loan you 1,000 coins, provided you promise to pay him back 2,000 coins in 40 puddledays (10 'real' days). Say 'I accept' to accept the loan, as well as any consequences that may come with failure to repay.

Zynx says, "i accept".
(Zynx signs Skirwan's loan ledger.)
(Skirwan hands Zynx some coins.)

...10 OOC days pass...

/use /collect Zynx /amount 2000
(Skirwan demands Zynx pay him 2,000 coins to settle their debt.)

• Skirwan is trying to collect the 2,000 coins you owe him. You have one OOC minute to pay up.

...one minute later...

(Zynx realizes he's defaulting on Skirwan's loan.)
(Skirwan glowers at Zynx and waves his <right hand item> angrily.)

/use /attack Zynx

(Skirwan prepares to teach Zynx a crucial lesson about economics.)

/use /attack Zynx /recruit Hoggle

(Skirwan enlists Hoggle's help in teaching Zynx a crucial lesson about economics.)

...after a brief but spirited battle...

/use /take Zynx 2000

• You search Zynx's fallen body, but only find 1,131 coins.

/use /take Zynx 1,131

(Skirwan searches Zynx's fallen body and grabs 1,131 coins of the 2,000 he is owed, then grabs Zynx's sunstone as interest.)
“However,” said Dumbledore, speaking very slowly and clearly so that none of them could miss a word, “you will find that I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me.”

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Maeght » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:28 pm

NewMan wrote:....no one in Lands would be particularly inclined to cough up their hard earned coin for someone else, particularly when it is a sum on the order of 5, 10 or 20k.
You're mistaken. It's done fairly frequently for friends. I've done it, I've seen others do it, and I've seen debtors complain about being in the hole, but happy with their new doodad.

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Gloria » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:29 pm

There shouldn't be an interest accruing on the loan. So the loan is made for a certain amount, and that full amount is repayed without additional cost.

Having a loan with interest is a recipe for disaster. A poor person is going to take years to repay even the loan amount. Adding interest would be unreasonable.
Aye'cha wrote:I'm not pulling a Gloria here

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Cammie » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:47 pm

Daimoth wrote:I like it as long as it's done by a south town loan shark and a gangland thug comes by when you haven't made your payments.

"Where's mah money? YOU GOTZ MAH MONEY? HUH?!"

Before you get promptly beaten to a pulp.
I love this idea, for the RP potential alone. :) Besides the usefulness of a loan system, this would add some flavor to the game.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Skirwan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:10 pm

Gloria wrote:There shouldn't be an interest accruing on the loan. So the loan is made for a certain amount, and that full amount is repayed without additional cost.
This just in: Gloria is Barack Obama.
“However,” said Dumbledore, speaking very slowly and clearly so that none of them could miss a word, “you will find that I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me.”

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Wormtounge » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:20 pm

NewMan wrote:
Cammie wrote:Coming up with 20k lumpsum for an item that might break immediately is a far cry from spending an occasional 200c on trophies or furniture that doesn't break.
I couldn't say it better myself.

Poor people are not inclined to go to the effort of saving 20k for an item, particularly if they have a hard time coming up with something as small as 100c. It takes a lot of patience, something many people do not have in large quantities, and there are a lot of things they may get interested in in the meantime.
The quite frim Cammie is taken out of the context it was originally in. If you're hunting on KI you're likely able to make a fair few coins on your own, and 100c wouldn't be too hard to put together if you're willing to go to the effort. Sure, 20k is difficult. But it's a cost you have to pay in order to do something special or different.

As for loans, I used to run a loan scheme. But it required collateral. Usually around twice the second hand value of the loan that was sought. So if you wanted 500c, you'd have to provide a fourth circle belt or similar. Of course this was relatively prohibitive, and there's always the risk that the person's not looking for a loan, just to quickly offload something they don't want to sell.

It requires a social contract at the moment, and personally I prefer it that way. Reducing the need for interaction isn't always a good thing. If this isn't to your liking, make more/better friends.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Daimoth » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:26 pm

Yeah to back up what Worm is saying, if there was a loan agent of some variety implemented, interest would have to be involved. Dealing with exiles should always be preferable to dealing with NPCs. The NPCs are just there in case there is no other way.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Wormtounge » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:33 pm

Gloria wrote:There shouldn't be an interest accruing on the loan. So the loan is made for a certain amount, and that full amount is repayed without additional cost.

Having a loan with interest is a recipe for disaster. A poor person is going to take years to repay even the loan amount. Adding interest would be unreasonable.
Then why would a person seek to offer loans to people other than good friends they trust?

If a person can't afford the repayments, they shouldn't be taking out the loans.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Gloria » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:27 pm

Loans with interest simply can't be repaid at the rate that healers and mystics can get coins. (The proposal is for large sums of money, over 10,000c. If an interest rate of 3% per zodiac were charged on 10,000c, that would be 300c per zodiac.) So loans without interest must be offered.
Aye'cha wrote:I'm not pulling a Gloria here

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Ayella » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:26 pm

Gloria, I wish you wouldn't lump healers and mystics into some pre-made cookie cutter in your mind. My healer has 29,000c in the bank, and my fighter had nothing to do with it. In fact, my healer supplies my fighter with coins for the library. Just because YOU can't make coins doesn't mean EVERYONE of your profession can't get coins.

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by xepel » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:08 pm

I think we've discussed this a zillion times on here, and always came up with the same answer: no, it is way too open for abuse. This is what the Search button is for. ;p

Otherwise you could do something like this... have an alt borrow 20k, give to your main, delete the alt. Make new alt. Rinse, repeat. If you're tying it to accounts, well, accounts are cheap, maybe I'll pay the $15 to buy a new account, borrow 100k to give to my main, and throw away the account. How do you stop people from doing this? You can't, really.

Keep it in-character. Borrow it from other characters who you know. If you are trustworthy enough, maybe you'll even get someone to borrow you 20k or more.
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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Dyaus » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:00 pm

I agree that interest would -have- to be involved. If not interest, then a at least a fixed fee that must be repaid (ie borrow 20k, repay 25k).
xepel wrote:I think we've discussed this a zillion times on here, and always came up with the same answer: no, it is way too open for abuse.
Oh come on, where there's abuse there are always ways to prevent it. ;) Puddlebean bankers would be foolish to loan heaps of money to someone fresh off the boat! Have the credit line equal to (total ranks * x) or something. *shrug*

I don't necessarily think bank loans are a needed feature, but I think they could be implemented in a way that's not very exploitable...

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Re: Bank Loans/Payment Plans

Post by Gloria » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:18 pm

Ayella has a really good point. I do have a lot of money as a healer that I've been given. My capacity to collect money on my own as a healer is also much higher than mystics or non-professioned.

I really like Dyaus's idea. It's a great solution to the problem of having a 'con' to borrowing money, but avoiding interest, which would become overwhelming quickly. So a set fee for borrowing the money.
Aye'cha wrote:I'm not pulling a Gloria here

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