Magic Scrolls

Polls, discussion and commentary on suggested issues.

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Do you want magic scrolls, as described in the first post?

Yes
7
58%
Maybe. I have some reservations.
2
17%
Not sure
0
No votes
No
3
25%
 
Total votes: 12

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Torin
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Magic Scrolls

Post by Torin » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:40 am

Compared to other RPGs, Clan Lord has a lot less magic available to the average character. As far as I can tell, the main reason is GM concern for game balance. Overpowered magic can upset the balance between characters and the environment's challenges. However, magic is interesting, cool, and fun, and a variety of magic is part of what defines the sword-and-sorcery RPG.

The way to introduce more magic without risking imbalance is single-use magic items like potions. Even a very powerful magic effect can't be too unbalancing as long as its availability is strictly limited. The item could also disappear after a certain time since it is first acquired, so that hoarding is avoided. Use it or lose it! Also, each item takes an inventory slot, so most active characters wouldn't be holding many.

Magic scrolls are the way that many RPGs have made a wide variety of spells available to everyone. Potions could be used for this purpose, but the use-it-or-lose-it time limit would be an unwelcome change for existing potions. A few ideas for spells are:

1. ability boosts
2. creature abilities
3. morphs
4. healing
5. invisibility to creatures
6. magic travel

You can look through CL to find effects that already exist (i.e., small programming requirement) and could be useful as a magic scroll.

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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by noivad » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:03 pm

I'm liking this approach, but there's a few questions:
Would only mystics be able to use the enhanced scrolls? (and healers use the healing scroll)?
Don't we already some of these?
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Daimoth » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:02 pm

If Mystics could make the scrolls and sell them to other classes to use, maybe our awful trade system would get a healthy boost, along with the Mystic class.
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Torin » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:10 pm

noivad wrote:Would only mystics be able to use the enhanced scrolls? (and healers use the healing scroll)?
No. In general, anyone would be able to use any scroll. There might be some exceptions, but I see most scrolls as Magic For Dummies. Read the scroll and poof, bam.

Scrolls wouldn't replace any profession. A healer would be much more useful than a healing scroll. A boosting scroll gives only one short boost, whereas a skillful mystic can give longer and more powerful boosts as well as do other mystic things.
Don't we already some of these?
Sure. I was just throwing out obvious things. The beauty is that GMs would have a means to try out all kinds of wild and crazy ideas without worrying that they will completely change the way people do things.

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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Cinnamon » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:40 am

The trade system needs proper infrastructure to be fixed. Raffles aren't economy.

I voted No becuase it sounds like having a pocket Mystic without actually needing to click one when you want one.
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Fogtripper » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:04 am

I'd like to pre-order 100 scrolls of Detha, 100 scrolls of Trillbane PFing, and a scroll of pie baking. I'm patiently awaiting the development of Hands and Eyes of Vecna. Oh, and a single portable hole please!

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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Torin » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:33 am

I haven't said anything about scrolls being made by exiles. I am assuming that most cannot be. That would be in keeping with the limited availability. So there might be a couple of Scrolls of Akea floating around, but the number would be closer to Ethereal Boots (1) than red healing salves. Scrolls would be treasure drops, and which kind you get would be random.

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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Odesseus » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:39 pm

I like in Rogue or Hack anyone can read scrolls or Quaff potions. Unfortunately, not all were good, and some would make you move the wrong way, or make you dizzy, or sick and stuff.

That would be cool in CL.
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by xepel » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:54 pm

Hmmm. I do love magic, and think it would be a great idea to add it in more ways... but I have reservations.

I feel like all of these could be (and some are!) just potions. Healing Salve, Fighting Elixir, Polymorph Potion. Some (healing) are already in the game. There's no need for a healing "scroll" when we have Healing Potions, Healing Salves, and Tykan Potions. Sure, you have the "use it or lose it"... but meh.

You say that scrolls are just "treasure drops"? Hmmm. I suppose that does keep the availability down (unless you go farm the Pathfinding Scroll Drop Zone so you never have to bring a 192-pf PFer on your hunt), but you're still replacing what could be people (like mystics for boosts) when you have scrolls that you *have* to use (or lose!) anyway.

It depends a ton on how it's implemented and how people actually end up using them, so I'm wishy-washy on this.
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Gremlins » Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:32 am

xepel wrote: but you're still replacing what could be people (like mystics for boosts) when you have scrolls that you *have* to use (or lose!) anyway.
.
That's actually the point I like. At low clanning time, finding a mystic or even a PFer can be a pain. Getting ways to bypass that at a cost might be good…
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Torin » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:56 am

xepel wrote:I feel like all of these could be (and some are!) just potions. Healing Salve, Fighting Elixir, Polymorph Potion. Some (healing) are already in the game. There's no need for a healing "scroll" when we have Healing Potions, Healing Salves, and Tykan Potions. Sure, you have the "use it or lose it"... but meh.
I started with the effects that are already in game because new effects might take a long, long time to get in, assuming that the GMs agree that the new effect is OK to put in at all. The point is that magic scrolls would be a general mechanism for putting magic into the game in a way that is limited not so much by the nature of the magic itself, but by the number of scrolls in the lands -- i.e., very few for short periods of time, and finding them would be unreliable. Obviously a scroll that gives you 50 million coins would be unbalanced even if only one existed. But fireballs and webs and lightning and invisibility and all the other things GMs would be unwilling to allow as a permanent ability or item might be OK in a kind of scroll that only one or two people have at any given time.
You say that scrolls are just "treasure drops"? Hmmm. I suppose that does keep the availability down (unless you go farm the Pathfinding Scroll Drop Zone so you never have to bring a 192-pf PFer on your hunt), but you're still replacing what could be people (like mystics for boosts) when you have scrolls that you *have* to use (or lose!) anyway.
It should be clear by now that when I say "strictly limited availability," there would be no places to farm a particular kind of scroll. There might be some content-related themes (e.g., lightning and fire scrolls from a rare kind of high level orga, web shooting and web walking from an Noid Mage, etc.), but farming is only possible when the GMs make drops frequent and predictable. I don't want frequent and predictable drops.

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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Rodan » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:35 pm

You need to find ways of adding abilities to exiles, not creating the same ones and masking the need for exiles to help each other out. Puddleby is a society and the need for each person the play their part is important. Don't diminish the role of healers and mystics for the use of scrolls.
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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Torin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:47 am

Rodan wrote:You need to find ways of adding abilities to exiles, not creating the same ones and masking the need for exiles to help each other out.
Permanent abilities go hand in hand with GMs being supercautious. If it's going to be in the game forever, you have to get it right, or the game balance goes to hell. If it's a scroll with only 3 copies which crumble to dust 2 days after they are found, then it's no biggie if the magic is a little overpowered.
Puddleby is a society and the need for each person the play their part is important. Don't diminish the role of healers and mystics for the use of scrolls.
We already have healing potions. No one says, we don't need a healer because we have healing potions. Also, the beauty of the scroll approach is that if a particular kind of scroll hurts cooperation or hurts the game in some other way, it's easy to stop future instances of that kind of scroll. What if the Asklepian or Blood Mages hurt game balance? Much harder problems to address. Not to say that we shouldn't have those permanent things, but scrolls provide a way to try a lot of new things and weed out the ones that don't work, as opposed to taking years to get something new into the game.

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Re: Magic Scrolls

Post by Shadowfire » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:12 pm

Ding ding ding!

IAWTP.

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