Second chance at circle test for double KO

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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Maeght » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:34 am

Sometimes when you barely tie, that was the absolute best you can do. I've seen several cases where I came close and then didn't for months.

It's working as intended.

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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Killian » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:59 pm

Daimoth wrote:
Killian wrote:
When did this take place?? Had to be in the past 8 months or so. This breaks my heart. I have always noticed GM's changing things in the name of "fairness". But to change debuffs in tests that don't even matter...I feel like they want us to leave. pretty petty.


Edit. Just tested with Asmo, Hemo is the only thing that works.

I feel the only right thing to do is give up Asmodean's eighth circle badge. I thought I earned it. Guess I was wrong....GM's please remove my 8th badge. If this is how you feel then remove it please.
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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Daimoth » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:03 pm

Sonny_Bill wrote: Doesn't really help with luck whiffs mate (I wish I had enough BB that I could untrain a heap, have 600-700 histia and still hit current level content).
It does help with whiffs, because you mitigate the cost of the whiff (getting hit). Histia also mitigates the risk of getting luck hit, making it a huge necessity for bricks too. Histia solves all "luck" based issues and makes everyone a more consistent performer.
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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Grok » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:43 pm

Histia is pretty great. I should train more Histia.

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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Icy » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:31 pm

Daimoth wrote:
Sonny_Bill wrote: Doesn't really help with luck whiffs mate (I wish I had enough BB that I could untrain a heap, have 600-700 histia and still hit current level content).
It does help with whiffs, because you mitigate the cost of the whiff (getting hit). Histia also mitigates the risk of getting luck hit, making it a huge necessity for bricks too. Histia solves all "luck" based issues and makes everyone a more consistent performer.
Your flawed logic discounts the entire principle of the bloodmage. It's meant to be risk/reward based on lower health=bigger reward. My BM hits significantly harder (and more accurately, but at a certain point this isn't necessary) on 1% health than 5% health. This is a fairly small amount of histia compared to total ranks.
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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Zelkhorn » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:39 pm

The value a Bloodmage gains from training Histia is maybe one of those things best observed in play rather than on paper. Uptime is everything, so even a tiny piece of one Histia can be incredibly valuable as it translates to more DPS done over the entire hunt.

As Zelk's build has always leaned more on the group-boosting utility of the BM vs. ungodly DPS potential, I found having a healthy pool of hitpoints to be particularly helpful with crowd control.

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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Daimoth » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:28 pm

Zelkhorn wrote:The value a Bloodmage gains from training Histia is maybe one of those things best observed in play rather than on paper. Uptime is everything, so even a tiny piece of one Histia can be incredibly valuable as it translates to more DPS done over the entire hunt.

As Zelk's build has always leaned more on the group-boosting utility of the BM vs. ungodly DPS potential, I found having a healthy pool of hitpoints to be particularly helpful with crowd control.
This is exactly correct. This is also why Zelkhorn boasts one of the highest damage-per-hunt numbers in the game, despite being inferior in terms of damage stats when compared to some other BMs.
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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Mac » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:17 am

Zelkhorn wrote:The value a Bloodmage gains from training Histia is maybe one of those things best observed in play rather than on paper.
I've talked about this subject extensively with Zelk and on more than a few occasions here or elsewhere. Without repeating everything, I'll just say that Histia is not required for BM to be good, but it goes a long way to making it easier to be good. Even considering that BM fight on a low percent of health, having more base Histia lets you take more hits (especially with armor) which allows you to make more mistakes, gives you time to feign or shieldstone, and still live to continue doing damage.

I wont go as far to say that more Histia is always better, but it's never bad. Basically in any situation where wearing armor helps, then training Histia helps.

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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Daimoth » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:13 pm

Mac wrote: I've talked about this subject extensively with Zelk and on more than a few occasions here or elsewhere. Without repeating everything, I'll just say that Histia is not required for BM to be good, but it goes a long way to making it easier to be good. Even considering that BM fight on a low percent of health, having more base Histia lets you take more hits (especially with armor) which allows you to make more mistakes, gives you time to feign or shieldstone, and still live to continue doing damage.

I wont go as far to say that more Histia is always better, but it's never bad. Basically in any situation where wearing armor helps, then training Histia helps.
I'm not sure I follow. Armor slows down BM speed - Histia does not. There's never a situation where more histia isn't better.

The only situation where I've seen Histia-lite BMs making it work is in non-performance hunts where monsters are carefully lured 1-2 at a time.
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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by Mac » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:55 pm

Daimoth wrote:I'm not sure I follow. Armor slows down BM speed - Histia does not. There's never a situation where more histia isn't better.
Armor gives more effective health (which is what Histia does). It's not a "you should wear armor" comment, it's a "if you are wearing armor then more Histia would do the same thing." i.e. If you can think of any situation where you'd want to/benefit from wearing armor then you're also saying "more Histia would be better." (Whether or not it's worth wearing armor, as a BM, depends on how much Histia you have since it's a % increase and not a flat bonus to effective health. If you're getting 10 more Histia from armor it's probably not worth it where getting 100 more is probably worth it.)

More Histia isn't better if you can't hit stuff (need more BB), your swing regen is super slow (you're only getting 1/3 tags because you're always waiting on balance), you'd still get 1 hit (10 or 100 Histia doesn't matter if everything hits for 150), you don't have enough Crato/Heen to shieldstone effectively, you don't have enough ring ranks to "instant" fall, etc. In all those cases, it would be better to train something else, but if you got more Histia it wouldn't be bad.

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Re: Second chance at circle test for double KO

Post by noivad » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:01 pm

Well this has fallen away from the OP. I don’t think Dai was wrong in stating Histia gives you another chance in case you take more hits than you intended.

If luck whiffs are you main problem with passing the test, maybe you are at the edge of reliably hitting. Then it would make sense to train up Atkus a bit more to put you over the threshold. Even 20 ranks can make a big difference when you’re on the edge of reliably hitting. I’ve noticed that a 50%/50% chance substantially improves with a minor increase in atkus.

If you can spot your weak points: not hitting, not surviving, not X, then you can adjust your training to compensate. However, this works best for a strategy of training away weaknesses.

I’m training up Hista right now because it improves the odds I survive big fights, as long as I move smart & don’t get terribly unlucky (trapped/blocked). More Histia has definitely helped with my survivability during tough hunts by giving me better odds to survive hits—lucky or otherwise. I notice my fall count is lower than some other people’s—of course I will use people as shields to prevent taking unnecessary/fatal damage.

Anyway: more Atkus to hit more reliably & more Histia would be good for those unlucky times.
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