Reform the circle tests

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Sonny_Bill
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Reform the circle tests

Post by Sonny_Bill » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:33 am

Quick suggestion... I've been trying to pass circle 3 for roughly 6 months now. Over the past 2 months I've had nobody to hunt with (so my only possible exp comes from the library) and I'm at a stage where I could pass circle 3 with a lucky run.

A month ago I had the orga rage down to red and only needed 1 more hit I suspect (this is without armour by the way). I slipped up and died. Today I gave it a go and only killed the 2 rats. This was a mixture of bad luck (all 4 enemies went straight at me from the start and trapped me) and my skills fading away because I'm not clicking regularly (my only clicking now is once a week when I give the test another go).

From this I have a few ideas...
1) Make people able to sit the test once a day. This would keep people in practice and give them a bit more grace if they simply get unlucky, or have a bad day with clicking.
2) Allow people to sit the test once a week, but with 3 attempts.
3) Provide unlimited practice tests so that people can warm up before sitting the test.

I think #1 would be the easiest to implement. It could also encourage people to login more regularly because there's something they can do every day. The more people we get logging in to give it a go, the more likely it is that less regular players will bump into each other and decide to, for example, go on a quick hunt together.

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Icy
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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Icy » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:12 am

Just hunt more. They wont be changing the tests because most people dont get 7 ranks in a full week which is how often you can test now. It takes more than 7 ranks to swing how you are doing in the tests. Most people also do not currently have any tests to take.
3/3/15 9:27:45a Icy has fallen to a Rat.

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Borzon
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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Borzon » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:37 am

You can redo previous tests as practice runs.

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Starsword
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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Starsword » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:48 pm

I sincerely believe the circle tests should be random dungeons with difficulty based on circle.

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Lorikeet
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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Lorikeet » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:40 pm

Make a plan with people to hunt sometimes something that is appropriate for you. You probably don't need a lot of people to do something you get experience for.
Borrow armor for the test.
Even if you came on a hunt that's way too hard for you, you can probably luck hit enough to exceed the library experience.

What are you going to do if you pass third?

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Xrak » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:26 pm

Lorikeet wrote: Even if you came on a hunt that's way too hard for you, you can probably luck hit enough to exceed the library experience.

What are you going to do if you pass third?
100% this. There is no point in waiting around in the library to reach a goal, because there are always more goals. Let's say you hit third and decide to go for subclass, your next post will be about making qualifying for that subclass easier because it's taking too long to wait in the library for fourth circle (circle apparently helps with subclass progress).

The thing is, circle tests don't make your character stronger, ranks do. If a GM were to just grant Sonny Bill eighth circle he wouldn't be any stronger. Sure, third circle allows access to some much more efficient ranks through subclassing but it is still a very, very long road from there if you want to contribute to hunts in even semi-relevant areas (unless you go bloodblade and have excellent clicking skills). Besides, you will fairly quickly want ranks that you could be training now (say, swengus), so again there is no reason to sit in the library.

I guess my main point is, based on your posts here, you don't seem to have fun in this game. If you are hoping that the library will bring you to a point where you will have fun, I think you will be disappointed. At least for me, the fun is in interacting with the awesome people who play this game, and in terms of game mechanics, working towards goals. If you see the people as enemies ("I know nobody gives a $h!t what I think and most people ignore me these days", Sonny Bill) and the goals as obstacles (every "suggestion" you have made seems to indicate this), then why even play?

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Maeght » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:23 pm

Sonny_Bill wrote: A month ago I had the orga rage down to red and only needed 1 more hit I suspect (this is without armour by the way). I slipped up and died. Today I gave it a go and only killed the 2 rats. This was a mixture of bad luck (all 4 enemies went straight at me from the start and trapped me) and my skills fading away because I'm not clicking regularly (my only clicking now is once a week when I give the test another go).
I think I took the test with exactly the same results probably 8-10 times before I passed and it was a fair amount of time after that before I could retake it and pass reliably.

"Woot he missed." "Swing stupid!" "No, not now, you waited too long." "Holy crap, he missed again." Omigod I passed.

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Sonny_Bill » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:09 am

Lorikeet wrote:Make a plan with people to hunt sometimes something that is appropriate for you. You probably don't need a lot of people to do something you get experience for.
I tried... nobody volunteered to help (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10100). The offer is still open if anybody's keen though.
Lorikeet wrote:Borrow armor for the test.
If somebody's on I do, otherwise it I just give it a go for practice. FWIW I actually go better without armour most times. I suspect that armour decreases some important stats?
Lorikeet wrote:Even if you came on a hunt that's way too hard for you, you can probably luck hit enough to exceed the library experience.

What are you going to do if you pass third?
Essentially subclass as a BB. This will accelerate my atkus much faster than training base stats. Yes base stats are also necessary and you can't BB without base stats. However, my goal is to hit stuff and then worry about balancing out my character later. IMO focussing on necessary stats for this purpose rather than necessary stats for killing an orga rage would be a lot more fun.

My side thought is whether requiring ~150-180 trained atkus ranks (depending on your race) is productive when 50 ranks of BB will give a player much more than that (and they could focus on swengus/histia instead of atkus if it wasn't required). IMO after circle 3, circles don't matter a great deal. Being unable to subclass is a MASSIVE soft lock given everybody else has a subclass and it's such an important part of the game. I feel like I'm constantly cramming for a difficult test that bares no resemblance with reality rather than working on some more practical tasks that build towards something bigger...

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Borzon
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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Borzon » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:35 am

BM isn't a free ticket to CL end game content. To be able to hit that stuff you'll need at least 300-400 BB to start with and roughly 500 in histia & regia to actually be effective. Not to mention spirit and abilities. So you're still looking at a ~1500 rank investment before it starts being fun imo.

Also, you can already spend rank in this which ALSO helps killing the rage which is training histia which you will want in the long run anyway. No way you're gonna enjoy running around in BP with 200 histia and being red ;P

Not to mention the BM learning curve..

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Daimoth » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:56 am

I gotta agree that bloodblade is the ticket to the ez life. Went from a tiny son dispatching faithless on ash in my free time to participating in the new highest level deep toks area and solo vanqing valley with lorikeet in a few months on the back of 250 bloodblade max.

Can always get rid of it later for other stuff too. Don't have to subclass. The starting bloodblade requires no spirit and has regia benefits, so it's definitely superior to use as a boosting tool.
Extreme level disparity is community disparity.

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Cirnahl_Lovsya » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:52 pm

Daimoth wrote:I gotta agree that bloodblade is the ticket to the ez life. Went from a tiny son dispatching faithless on ash in my free time to participating in the new highest level deep toks area and solo vanqing valley with lorikeet in a few months on the back of 250 bloodblade max.

Can always get rid of it later for other stuff too. Don't have to subclass. The starting bloodblade requires no spirit and has regia benefits, so it's definitely superior to use as a boosting tool.
I'd have never guessed.

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Osito
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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Osito » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:04 pm

Sonny_Bill wrote:
Lorikeet wrote:Make a plan with people to hunt sometimes something that is appropriate for you. You probably don't need a lot of people to do something you get experience for.
I tried... nobody volunteered to help (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10100). The offer is still open if anybody's keen though.
Lorikeet wrote:Borrow armor for the test.
If somebody's on I do, otherwise it I just give it a go for practice. FWIW I actually go better without armour most times. I suspect that armour decreases some important stats?
Armor solely decreases movement speed, therefore it can be a huge help for tests because it increases damage mitigation significantly. Even wearing armor you should be able to dance around and fight only 1-2 critters at a time. Armor becomes even more useful the more histia/higgrus one trains. The more health, the more armor does for you.

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Sonny_Bill » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:20 pm

Osito wrote:
Sonny_Bill wrote:
Lorikeet wrote:Make a plan with people to hunt sometimes something that is appropriate for you. You probably don't need a lot of people to do something you get experience for.
I tried... nobody volunteered to help (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10100). The offer is still open if anybody's keen though.
Lorikeet wrote:Borrow armor for the test.
If somebody's on I do, otherwise it I just give it a go for practice. FWIW I actually go better without armour most times. I suspect that armour decreases some important stats?
Armor solely decreases movement speed, therefore it can be a huge help for tests because it increases damage mitigation significantly. Even wearing armor you should be able to dance around and fight only 1-2 critters at a time. Armor becomes even more useful the more histia/higgrus one trains. The more health, the more armor does for you.
Could just be a placebo. However, I believe I read that the wooden shield definitely does decrease atkus and balance recovery. Not sure about steel armour?

I don't think my clicking skills are in question (you're welcome to try passing the test with my character next week if you're confident it's my skills at fault). A number of people who have watched me and coached me (who I won't get involved in this) can confirm that I'm capable of doing the test pretty well flawlessly. I usually get to the stage where I've taken no damage from the vermine and bersek and am controlling the rage with strings 1-on-1, however he hits harder and has more health than me. Eventually I'll be better than him 1-on-1 so he'll fall.

My point here is that some days you get really bad luck! This week all 4 enemies went right at me in the bottom left corner and surrounded me. I did well to shake them, isolate the rats and then have a few shots at the berserk. However, I'd already last half my health by this stage. This is why I think 3 chances could help. Sometimes you really do just get dealt rotten luck with the test so don't get a fair go at passing.

The two offers remain open though:
1) If it is my skills/tactics, I'm happy for you to show me how it's done.
2) If anybody wants to help me out... the moonstone network and PM function are both there. Give me a buzz and we can arrange a time for some power ranking.

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Org du Lac » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:18 am

Sonny_Bill wrote: However, I believe I read that the wooden shield definitely does decrease atkus and balance recovery. Not sure about steel armour?
The wooden shield does not affect movement nor does it affect damage taken. The wooden shield increases detha by a fair amount and somewhat reduces balthus and regia, for a net increase of ranks. It does not decrease accuracy.

The iron shield does not provide any defense benefit (nor training penalties) but it slows you down by ~3% unless you are a champion. The same for the breastplate except it's a ~6% speed reduction. The iron helmet has no movement or training penalties and there is no reason to not wear it.

As for retaking the test, just use one of your alts that's > 3rd circle and retake the test. That way you can at least see how the monsters are going to come in so that you don't get surrounded by all four. Figure out the best positioning--the monsters always come into the testing arena in the exact same spot. The only randomness is if you're outside of their "sight" range, they will move randomly in a direction (which might be randomly towards you, or randomly away).

Consider switching weapons as well. If you have trouble hitting the Rage, use a greatsword. Otherwise it's probably best to use a greataxe on everything else, unless you need your balance at full to brick the berserk.

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Re: Reform the circle tests

Post by Daimoth » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:29 am

If you want to pass the test as fast as possible, never worry about training to brick anything. Health/damage passes tests the fastest by a huge margin. Limit every exchange to the trading of one (or two depending on the monster) heavy dmg attack to them and easily absorbing their attack.

There should never be an instance that you engage multiple monsters simultaneously or take two of their swings for one of yours. If there is you're just being silly. The tests make manipulating the monster movement really easy.

I agree that the great axe is the best choice of a weapon for third unless you need the GS accuracy. You need to squeeze out as much dmg as possible per exchange.
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