Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

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noivad
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Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by noivad » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:27 am

I a lot of ideas about Group Hunting that I should have been written down years ago, I finally decided to crystalize and boil down to the very basics and make bullet points under “Guidelines for Group Tactics.” It should take less than 2 minutes to read them all. Constructive comments welcome. thanks

http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... up_Tactics
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Icy » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:51 am

You forgot one:
  • NEVER PULL LORIKEET
3/3/15 9:27:45a Icy has fallen to a Rat.

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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Lorikeet » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:05 am

Icy wrote:You forgot one:
  • NEVER PULL LORIKEET

Unless you are escaping something and don't want to fall ;)

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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Osito » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:30 pm

Pull all dead bloodmages!

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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by noivad » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:37 pm

Lorikeet wrote:
Icy wrote:You forgot one:
  • NEVER PULL LORIKEET

Unless you are escaping something and don't want to fall ;)
“Heh” on both counts. But even then I have politely asked you, “pull please.”
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Chmee » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:51 am

Couple of things:

1. Train how you'll fight, fight how you train. (Of course, most people/groups in CL don't train at all, except by actually hunting).
2. Never pull someone into danger without permission. This will avoid the problem that occurs when you, without warning, pull the healer (or fighter more 'bricky' than you) so she can hold the monster, at the same time she pulls you to get you out of trouble.
3. If you can't see the leader, you're in the wrong place (if the leader is off scouting or luring, then somebody should be "second in command").
4. If you can't see the healers, you're in the wrong place.
5. If you're told to do something, drop whatever you're doing and do what you're told.
6. On a lure, stay behind the brick until the critters settle down.

Tactics are a matter of choice, to a large extent, so some may disagree with me, but… when the critters are feralling, I prefer a "zone" defense. Put the healers and mystics in the middle, fighters around the perimeter. Fighters stay in their zone, don't go chasing after the feraller(s).

When the enemy has artillery (webs, rocks, trees, mud, whatever), the "zone defense" doesn't work as well. Folks have to be able to avoid the incoming (especially webs, which stick around and remain a problem). In practice, everybody runs around like mad trying to avoid the arty while chasing (or avoiding) the critters. There's bound to be a better way, but I haven't figured it out yet. :-)
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Maeght » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:48 am

Know your friends, know your foes.
Do not follow a rigid set of rules. Spawns don't and that means you have to constantly adapt your strategy.
Sometimes falling is the right choice.

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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Nunul » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:02 pm

Chmee wrote: 2. Never pull someone into danger without permission.
As a BM I will be pulling anyone and everyone that is blocking my retreat because they are in too big a hurry to get a tag. *shrugs*
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by Chmee » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm

In that situation, Nunul, I would consider "being in too big a hurry to get tags" as giving permission. :D
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by noivad » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:47 am

Chmee wrote:Couple of things:

1. Train how you'll fight, fight how you train. (Of course, most people/groups in CL don't train at all, except by actually hunting).
2. Never pull someone into danger without permission. This will avoid the problem that occurs when you, without warning, pull the healer (or fighter more 'bricky' than you) so she can hold the monster, at the same time she pulls you to get you out of trouble.
3. If you can't see the leader, you're in the wrong place (if the leader is off scouting or luring, then somebody should be "second in command").
4. If you can't see the healers, you're in the wrong place.
5. If you're told to do something, drop whatever you're doing and do what you're told.
6. On a lure, stay behind the brick until the critters settle down.

Tactics are a matter of choice, to a large extent, so some may disagree with me, but… when the critters are feralling, I prefer a "zone" defense. Put the healers and mystics in the middle, fighters around the perimeter. Fighters stay in their zone, don't go chasing after the feraller(s).

When the enemy has artillery (webs, rocks, trees, mud, whatever), the "zone defense" doesn't work as well. Folks have to be able to avoid the incoming (especially webs, which stick around and remain a problem). In practice, everybody runs around like mad trying to avoid the arty while chasing (or avoiding) the critters. There's bound to be a better way, but I haven't figured it out yet. :-)
Those are all good, and some of them are covered in other parts of the group hunting page.
(1)Train how you will fight is actually covered outside of group hunting, and part of deciding what sort of fighter/healer you will be. I would be open to linking to that somewhere within the pages.

(2) If someone is in the wrong place: trapping you or forming a wall that prevents you getting to help your group’s focus, pulling is okay, in my book if going around can make a big difference. Lazy pulling to tag is a borderline issue, but pulling to get away from an over-eager tagger is expected behavior. Again, this is guidelines, not rigid rules. Those that do not like to be pulled usually make it known.

(3) & (4) are covered in "Stay Tight" http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... Stay_Tight

(5) is not covered in Communication, but should be.

(6) is common sense that is not all that common. I will add that as a recommendation.

Zone defense is implied with Guarding (which is forming a protective circle): http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... g#Guarding and also covered in this point: “For ferallers: the closest fighter should stand (in the open if the number of fighters can trap it, or near a wall if not) and wait for the feralling creature to come to him/her, and move to put the creature between himself/herself and the rest of the fighters to trap.” the thing is a fighter has to know how the feraller moves to do this effectively. So watching how creatures move is covered under http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php?title=Creatures

As far a projectiles webs, etc. I actually cover this:
Webbers
http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... es#Webbers
and chain lightning:
http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... es#Bolters

For webbers, if you can tell when they are about to throw, and they are facing (targetting) you, I just run fast in a direction so the web lands in an unimportant place, like toward a wall, away from the combat zone, away from others and any exit/travel paths.

Check it out. It works, and most exiles seem to instinctively know this stuff, but few practice ways to abate these dangers. Those that don’t know this actually lead to greater injuries for the entire group.


If you want to write something up for insertion, I can give you an account or just reply here (same to all without accounts). The Clump is meant to be a compendium of various points of view. They might conflict with each other, which is the purpose of the discussion pages.
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by noivad » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:57 am

Maeght wrote:Know your friends, know your foes.
Do not follow a rigid set of rules. Spawns don't and that means you have to constantly adapt your strategy.
Sometimes falling is the right choice.

Yup: thus “Guidelines” in the title. However, I added a short preface with you second sentence quoted with attribution (I hope that is okay with you — if not let me know and I will pull it), that makes it explicit that these are guidelines, not hard fast rules.

I made changes to this section. Thank you all for your feedback.

Please review. I hope I got the essence of your feedback right. If not…
any player is welcome to edit the pages, but to prevent spammers, auto-signups are disabled. So, you have to let me know if you want an account. If you would rather suggest/submit changes to pages without an account, you can message me as well, and start a topic here to get others involved. (That is why Coffee and Donuts exists: to discuss CL related sites, not just the ones I host, BTW.)
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Re: Please Review: Guidelines for Group Tactics

Post by noivad » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:24 am

I updated a few pages to include info and cross links to more tactics ” sorry critics no “reverse double shredder” formation. In fact all but "guarding formations are gone. I will assume from Maeght’s silence that quoting him on the guidelines was okay.

Revised:
Dodging webs updated
http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... dging_Webs

Webbers and chaining with webbers on snell as well as where not to stand:
http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... es#Webbers

General Group Guidelines now cross-linked more with details. Still concise though.
http://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.php ... up_Tactics
http://www.clanlord.net/
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