Numbers? Please!

A place to discuss CL related projects.

Moderators: Sheriff, The Deputies

Would you rather

See no numbers (and have the CLUMP on official DT sites)?
4
25%
See the numbers (and have the CLUMP off DT sites)?
7
44%
I don't care/know.
5
31%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar
noivad
Order of the White Elephant
Order of the White Elephant
Posts: 3327
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:04 pm
Profession: Fighter
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Location: SF Bay Area
Contact:

Numbers? Please!

Post by noivad » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:55 am

On one hand I think newbies should have easy access to this site and not have to clan for months before they see it, so, being added to DT's pages would be great. But on the other hand, as a reference for exiles around for a while, numbers and "you have to train X to do this..." would be more useful. It's a fine line between useful info and spoilers, and I'm trying to walk it.

I just wanted to remind contributors that hard numbers go in the Talk page of each page, so we keep spoilers off the main pages --Such as "it takes X ranks to do this." If you talk about PF, you can talk in general about it, but keep the numbers, such as the marsh hermit max, book rank count info, etc. on the talk page.

I'm running a poll to see how people feel about numbers. For now I plan to look over the CLUMP in the next week and look for numbers in main pages, and put them into the talk section if the authors of the pages don't do it. (Unless there's outcry that people want the numbers in the main pages.)
http://www.clanlord.net/
Org Du Lac's bestiary: http://bestiary.clanlord.net/index.html
Gil Galad’s Pirates http://pirates.clanlord.net/ & Ranger Studies: http://studies.clanlord.net/
?security warning:View cert•CL players assess valid by refs

User avatar
Lorikeet
Pogue Mahone
Pogue Mahone
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:58 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Lorikeet » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:41 pm

I guess I don't see the number of ranks you need for pf as a "spoiler".

Gremlins
Fenix Fire
Fenix Fire
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:42 am
Profession: Fallen
Race: Ghorak Zo
Player Status: Active
Location: Likely with some spiders…
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Gremlins » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:01 am

Lorikeet wrote:I guess I don't see the number of ranks you need for pf as a "spoiler".
While the numbers are not really a spoiler in that case, the existence and the location of a PF could be considered one maybe ?
Chum wrote:Do not attempt to apply logic to matters regarding Clan Lord; it'll just drive you nuts... ;)

User avatar
Lorikeet
Pogue Mahone
Pogue Mahone
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:58 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Fen'neko
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Lorikeet » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:34 am

Considering all the information that is on CLUMP, I don't think it's a spoiler. The first thing everyone asks is, "Where is the next trainer?" I'd say if you want to rediscover Clan Lord all by yourself without asking anyone anything, just don't read it. Then you can leave it for all the people who actually want to know what's going on. ;)

User avatar
Fundin
Dwarven Militia
Dwarven Militia
Posts: 2139
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:53 pm
Profession: Ranger
Race: Dwarf
Player Status: Active
Location: The Pub, the brewery or the floor.
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Fundin » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:47 pm

How about the option see numbers and have it on official site?
99 Bottles of Beer on the wall....
and 99 in my fridge :-D

------
CLAN LORD MAP REPOSITORY
Old maps, new maps, got any maps?
http://www.tidyup.co.uk/clanlord/site/index.html

User avatar
noivad
Order of the White Elephant
Order of the White Elephant
Posts: 3327
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:04 pm
Profession: Fighter
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Location: SF Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by noivad » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:54 pm

Fundin wrote:How about the option see numbers and have it on official site?
That's not an option because it's not an option. :)
http://www.clanlord.net/
Org Du Lac's bestiary: http://bestiary.clanlord.net/index.html
Gil Galad’s Pirates http://pirates.clanlord.net/ & Ranger Studies: http://studies.clanlord.net/
?security warning:View cert•CL players assess valid by refs

User avatar
xepel
Trainer
Posts: 3697
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:20 pm
Profession: Bard
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by xepel » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:45 pm

noivad wrote:
Fundin wrote:How about the option see numbers and have it on official site?
That's not an option because it's not an option. :)
Why not?

It's not that much of a secret that you can only train 100 PF from the Hermit, that there are 3 PF books, etc.

Saying "the valley PF needs 65 ranks" is probably a spoiler, while it's better to say that it needs a "moderate amount of pathfinding knowledge." So those numbers can probably not be noted.

But saying you are limited to 100 lessons with the Marsh Hermit is spoiling something somewhere? I don't think so.
Helpful GM exclaims, "Mystics can fly and walk through walls. They don't need boats on the water, and they can teleport at will!"

User avatar
Cinnamon
Sun Dragon Clan
Sun Dragon Clan
Posts: 6375
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:06 am

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Cinnamon » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:49 pm

Spoiler schmoiler. So long as they're sufficiently hidden, no problem. Put them behind a button marked Warning! Potential Spoilers!

In order for something to be officially CL it must be endorsed by DT. DT will not aknowledge numbers.
This sig pic removed by Vagile

User avatar
Fundin
Dwarven Militia
Dwarven Militia
Posts: 2139
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:53 pm
Profession: Ranger
Race: Dwarf
Player Status: Active
Location: The Pub, the brewery or the floor.
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Fundin » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:08 pm

noivad wrote:
Fundin wrote:How about the option see numbers and have it on official site?
That's not an option because it's not an option. :)
I agree with Xepel, why not?
99 Bottles of Beer on the wall....
and 99 in my fridge :-D

------
CLAN LORD MAP REPOSITORY
Old maps, new maps, got any maps?
http://www.tidyup.co.uk/clanlord/site/index.html

User avatar
Cinnamon
Sun Dragon Clan
Sun Dragon Clan
Posts: 6375
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:06 am

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Cinnamon » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:42 pm

Fundin wrote:
noivad wrote:
Fundin wrote:How about the option see numbers and have it on official site?
That's not an option because it's not an option. :)
I agree with Xepel, why not?
Check the definition of 'official'. DT is not going to verify the numbers. I doubt Joe would want to host it if there are hard numbers available.

Get a data dump from Gorvin, Azriel's results too, some editorials from Taryn.
This sig pic removed by Vagile

User avatar
Phroon
ThoomCare™
ThoomCare™
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:29 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Thoom
Player Status: Active
Location: Puddleby
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Phroon » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:44 pm

So am I to take it that all Spoilers are allowed on the CLUMP now?

User avatar
noivad
Order of the White Elephant
Order of the White Elephant
Posts: 3327
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:04 pm
Profession: Fighter
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Location: SF Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by noivad » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:57 pm

FYI: I'm not trying to make it official, I'm trying to get a link to it on the splash page for the game, just like the Sentinel is listed. Now saying that might spoil my chances, but just to let you know in order to do it I gotta curb spoilers at the door, or at least put them in the talk pages.

I think my contributors know what spoilers are by now, but I'm not sure if numbers for well known trainers are considered spoilers by Joe or th other GMs or not. I kinda like quasi-official status that I have now, but a lot of newbies don't find the CLUMP for months, so I'd like a big red flag directing them to the site for their own benefit because I think what we've built is one of the best resources out there for a new CL player.*

BTW, if you have a site that has tips for CL newbies, contact me and I'll add it to the links section of the site and maybe even roll it into the main content in addition.

Phroon: Yes and No. It depends on the type of spoiler. See, there's a lack of a clear line between what's a spoiler and what's not a spoiler. If it's a solution to a mystic puzzle then I'll pull it because I've been asked to keep those off the site by both DT and the Mystics**. If it's trainer number breakdown or max training with a trainer then that's supposed to go on the talk page since it's one of those things that's in the grey area.

*Meaning: I've found very little things a newbie asks about not addressed on the site.

**BTW, mystics I'm still waiting for a mystic-approved page on mystics.
http://www.clanlord.net/
Org Du Lac's bestiary: http://bestiary.clanlord.net/index.html
Gil Galad’s Pirates http://pirates.clanlord.net/ & Ranger Studies: http://studies.clanlord.net/
?security warning:View cert•CL players assess valid by refs

User avatar
Phroon
ThoomCare™
ThoomCare™
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:29 pm
Profession: Healer
Race: Thoom
Player Status: Active
Location: Puddleby
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Phroon » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:58 pm

noivad wrote:Phroon: Yes and No. It depends on the type of spoiler. See, there's a lack of a clear line between what's a spoiler and what's not a spoiler.
That really was my point.
noivad wrote:If it's trainer number breakdown or max training with a trainer then that's supposed to go on the talk page since it's one of those things that's in the grey area.
See, I would think that such a thing would be more of a spoiler. Gorvin's, Azriel's & Taryn's full breakdown of the mechanics of all the trainers is one of the the biggest spoilers in Clan Lord. I'd rank that up there with "How do I become a Mystic?". Nothing really compares to the level of secrecy imposed by DT to obfuscate these mechanics from view.

I can see allowing for some, but your on a very slippery slope. "It takes about 60 PF to open HH" is a lot different than "11 Detha provides the same defense as 13.7 balthus".


I'm not arguing that it's a bad thing to provide this information someplace, but I don't feel that the CLUMP is the right place for it.

User avatar
Raul
Noble
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:05 am
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by Raul » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:53 pm

puddleopdia isnt even on splash page

User avatar
noivad
Order of the White Elephant
Order of the White Elephant
Posts: 3327
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:04 pm
Profession: Fighter
Race: Sylvan
Player Status: Active
Location: SF Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Numbers? Please!

Post by noivad » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:14 pm

Raul wrote:puddleopdia isnt even on splash page
your point?
http://www.clanlord.net/
Org Du Lac's bestiary: http://bestiary.clanlord.net/index.html
Gil Galad’s Pirates http://pirates.clanlord.net/ & Ranger Studies: http://studies.clanlord.net/
?security warning:View cert•CL players assess valid by refs

Post Reply