Channel Master Help

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Daimoth
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Channel Master Help

Post by Daimoth » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:34 pm

Seems to me that some people don't understand how Channel Master works. I understand why. The Champion class is convoluted and filled with redundant skills that are needlessly segregated across several trainers.

Basically, its sole function is to turn unneeded accuracy off. So you'd train a moderate amount of CM, 1/4 of the value of those ranks spent in CM in Atkite, and another 1/4 of the value of the CM amount in a stone you want to turn that unneeded accuracy into (Darkite/Balthite/Dethite).

When you equip the -ite you favor for the situation, you receive roughly the amount of CM trained in that specific skill. For example, 100CM will grant you 100 Atkus when you equip the 25Atkite-trained Atkite stone. When you switch to your Darkite, you will receive roughly 100 Darkus when you equip the 25Darkite-trained Darkite stone.

You can train a third if you want too, but the end result is the same: This trainer is only to provide situational accuracy that you can turn off. Think of it like a Fell Blade that you don't need backstabs for.

That's it. That's its only function. You should never train CM beyond what you need in accuracy for the highest tier monsters. In addition, there's never a time where you should be training one -ite higher than another.

Once you receive the amount of CM you desire for accuracy, and balance it with the appropriate 1:4 ratio in desired -ites, you should return to training core skills as they are much more efficient as they are always on. Because, indeed, the only ranks we'd ever want to turn off situationally are Atkus. (Darkus is cheap enough on your balance to manage having on all the time)

I hope that helps.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Talas » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:19 am

Daimoth wrote:Seems to me that some people don't understand how Channel Master works. I understand why. The Champion class is convoluted and filled with redundant skills that are needlessly segregated across several trainers.
I think it's not the only think people don't understand. Thats why i would like to allow everyone into the subclass boards so that they can learn the tools and tricks the subclasses could do.
Alternatively we could need a real good introduction into the subclasses and their skills.
I could write such a thing for Rangers i guess - but I don't have the knowledge for BM's or Champs.

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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by FriedDylan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:05 am

Wait, so merely equipping the stone grants that or only when you equip and /use it? If I'm reading this right then having the Pauldron keeps it on/equipped and frees your hands. This is what I thought would be a passive bonus if it is so.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Daimoth » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:34 am

FriedDylan wrote:Wait, so merely equipping the stone grants that or only when you equip and /use it? If I'm reading this right then having the Pauldron keeps it on/equipped and frees your hands. This is what I thought would be a passive bonus if it is so.
It's a passive effect of equipping it regardless of whether its a stone or pauldron. Makes no difference between the two. They are exactly the same, just in different slots. The pauldron occupies a less used slot and is therefore better
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Gorvin » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:03 pm

It also needs to be mentioned that you receive 0.2 CM for every Fell rank trained. This is similar to the bonus Duvin given by Goss ranks, except that it doesn't actually affect the trainer message when you talk to Channel Master. It's not something that you should go out of your way to train extra Fell ranks for, but it does need to be factored in when you're trying to figure out how many -ite ranks you need to train to fully utilize your CM ranks.

It also means that even if you don't have any interest in training CM, you should at least train enough -ite ranks to make use of the CM given from the Fell ranks you have. For example, at the bare minimum 80 Fell ranks, you will have the equivalent of 16 CM even if you've never trained any CM directly. Training 4 ranks in an -ite would give you the equivalent of 16 ranks for the price of 4, which would be a stupid thing not to go for (in Atkite's case it's actually closer to 12:4, but still more than worth it).

If you haven't been keeping track of your ranks or are unsure of them, you can /use /reflect on a pauldron and it will give you a message that will tell you if you need to train more, less, or zero ranks in the respective -ite trainer to fully utilize your current CM ranks.

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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Haffron » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:18 am

They should just get rid of the -ite trainers, and lump all of those ranks into CM. Then, change the CM ranks to remain as effective as they were. Champions aren't going to be much stronger if they get to use 1 or 2 more -ites, but it would feel much better and training would be far simpler.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by FriedDylan » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:50 am

I agree- Why train them separately? CM should be all of those. A different ability to be trained as is the lava cloak and stonegirdle. I wouldn't agree that CM should remain more like a Toomeria (or whatever her name is)..

Then again I would like to see blacksmiths be able to combine stones into a Pauldron, you could choose which two to combine, but not all of them.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Daimoth » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:50 pm

Agreed CM should just contain all the proper ratios of -ites innately in one trainer. No one is ever going to train outside of the ratios anyway, so why have separate trainers?
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by noivad » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:32 am

Daimoth wrote:Seems to me that some people don't understand how Channel Master works. I understand why. The Champion class is convoluted and filled with redundant skills that are needlessly segregated across several trainers.

Basically, its sole function is to turn unneeded accuracy off. So you'd train a moderate amount of CM, 1/4 of the value of those ranks spent in CM in Atkite, and another 1/4 of the value of the CM amount in a stone you want to turn that unneeded accuracy into (Darkite/Balthite/Dethite).

When you equip the -ite you favor for the situation, you receive roughly the amount of CM trained in that specific skill. For example, 100CM will grant you 100 Atkus when you equip the 25Atkite-trained Atkite stone. When you switch to your Darkite, you will receive roughly 100 Darkus when you equip the 25Darkite-trained Darkite stone.

You can train a third if you want too, but the end result is the same: This trainer is only to provide situational accuracy that you can turn off. Think of it like a Fell Blade that you don't need backstabs for.

That's it. That's its only function. You should never train CM beyond what you need in accuracy for the highest tier monsters. In addition, there's never a time where you should be training one -ite higher than another.

Once you receive the amount of CM you desire for accuracy, and balance it with the appropriate 1:4 ratio in desired -ites, you should return to training core skills as they are much more efficient as they are always on. Because, indeed, the only ranks we'd ever want to turn off situationally are Atkus. (Darkus is cheap enough on your balance to manage having on all the time)

I hope that helps.
Mind if I add this to the CLUMP? good info like this is best preserved in Wiki, or other document system. Or if you have a Champion page to link, I would be happy to add it.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Daimoth » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:57 am

That's fine. The way its presented is very important though. It's such a needlessly convoluted design that without explaining everything as thoroughly and basically as possible people won't really understand. Which is why I feel telling them how to train it - as needless as that SHOULD be - is very imperative as this skill can waste ranks very easily if someone trains outside its purpose or more than a moderate amount.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by noivad » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:48 pm

Daimoth wrote:That's fine. The way its presented is very important though. It's such a needlessly convoluted design that without explaining everything as thoroughly and basically as possible people won't really understand. Which is why I feel telling them how to train it - as needless as that SHOULD be - is very imperative as this skill can waste ranks very easily if someone trains outside its purpose or more than a moderate amount.
Thanks. I used your words pretty much verbatim because without understanding it fully, I shouldn’t be reinterpreting it. I changed the paragraph breaks, to be a bit more structured, but did not rearrange any of it. Let me know if there is anything you wish to clarify, fix, update, etc.:
https://www.clanlord.net/clump/index.ph ... nel_Master
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Chmee » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:31 pm

I just looked at the Bestiary, and it appears that the Mistral Kestral, at 950, requires the most Atkus to hit.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Daimoth » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:41 pm

Chmee wrote:I just looked at the Bestiary, and it appears that the Mistral Kestral, at 950, requires the most Atkus to hit.
Mistral, lesser sarra'yrm and greater deaths are all up there. I think greater deaths take the most to hit reliably though. Particularly the EP variety.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Chopper » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:57 am

Daimoth wrote:
Chmee wrote:I just looked at the Bestiary, and it appears that the Mistral Kestral, at 950, requires the most Atkus to hit.
Mistral, lesser sarra'yrm and greater deaths are all up there. I think greater deaths take the most to hit reliably though. Particularly the EP variety.
The EP variety is hellish, I can't hit those even at pixel health. I can easily hit Lesser Sarra'yrms at that health. So yeah, EP GD (and certain one-time boss monsters) is the hardest to hit afaik.
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Re: Channel Master Help

Post by Chmee » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:33 am

From the Bestiary:

Mistral Kestral: 950
Greater Death: 900
Crookbeak Kestrel: 850
Emerald Arachnoid: 800
Lesser Sarra'yrm: 800
Orga Loathing: 800

The Bestiary notes that these numbers aren't exact, and can vary by as much as ±10%. I've studied the Lesser Sarra'yrm, and I can barely hit it reliably. The others not so much. Guess I need more Gossamer training. Or a really big atkus boost. :)

I suspect the Greater Death needs more than 900 on average, from what you say.
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